Confused about selling my C&R guns

Discussion in 'Curio & Relics Forum' started by The Count, Jul 16, 2010.

  1. The Count

    The Count New Member

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    recently got my C&R license and already bought half a dozen pistols. at this pace i will eventually have to sell some in order to keep buying (and you can tell i am infected with the gun virus). i went through the stack of docs the ATF sent me but confusion remains.

    1) can i sell my guns on gunsamerica, auctions sites, etc to anybody as long as i ship to a 01 FFL?

    2) is there a difference somehow between selling my non-c&r guns and the C&R ones?

    3) can i sell and ship to C&R license holders directly? only in-state?

    anything important that i missed?
  2. jwmtx

    jwmtx New Member

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    Question # 1--Yes--You can ship C&R guns to 03
    # 2--yes--non C&R guns must ship to 01
    # 3--yes--you can ship directly in or out of state
    As long as you ship to the proper classifacation FFL you should be covered. James
  3. deadin

    deadin Well-Known Member

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    Be aware of one thing you cannot do as a C&R License holder is utilize the US Postal Service for shipping or receiving handguns. Rifles and antiques are OK, but no pistols.
  4. jwmtx

    jwmtx New Member

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    That may be true, but a lot of people do it. I'm a buyer and most of my handguns have come to me by USPS.
    How do they know what's in a package?????
    James
  5. deadin

    deadin Well-Known Member

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    I thought we were discussing what is legal, not what you may "get away with".
  6. The Count

    The Count New Member

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    i agree. the feds have absolutely NO HUMOR with anything concerning guns. i play it 100% by the books.

    PS if the seller has a 01 FFL then the postal service is OK anyway when shipping to a 03, right?
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2010
  7. deadin

    deadin Well-Known Member

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    Only if the gun is a long gun or antique. Handguns via USPS must be sent AND received by a FFL01. (There are a few exceptions, but a C&R, FFL03 isn't one of them.)
  8. gdmoody

    gdmoody Moderator Supporting Member

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    I will add that a C&R FFL is not a license to start a business in used guns!!!
  9. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    Hi, deadin,

    Sure of that? Only an 01 FFL can send a handgun by USPS, per postal regulations. But IIRC, he/she can ship by USPS to any licensee, which includes an 03 FFL, and to a non-licensee under certain conditions.

    As to "how do they know"? They often ask, and lying is a federal crime. Even if they don't ask, mailing certain articles is illegal and if the package comes open, or is x-rayed (routine for any suspicious package), the mailer will be subject to some pretty severe penalties and a federal felony conviction that will keep him/her from ever again owning a gun.

    IMHO, it is NOT worth it to save a few dollars or to "put something over" on the USPS.

    Jim
  10. deadin

    deadin Well-Known Member

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    Jim,
    See below, especially 12.1.2 & 12.1.3. C&R Licensees are NOT included.
    This is from the Domestic Mailing Manual 601 (The USPS "Bible")

  11. jwmtx

    jwmtx New Member

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    All that you have said is true, but as I said, I am a buyer and I'm not getting away with anything. And not trying to.
    James
  12. deadin

    deadin Well-Known Member

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    I think I would ask the Postal Inspectors what their take on that is.
    It could be considered Aiding and Abetting in the commission of a crime or receiving contraband or such. (An item illegally sent through the mail is considered contraband and subject to confiscation)
  13. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    Thanks, deadin. My error.

    The real problem is that when the 03 FFL came out in 1968, the postal service never updated their regulations, probably because they have made it clear over the years that they don't like handling firearms shipments and didn't want to add to them. They won't admit it, but their employees are as light fingered as those of any other carrier when handguns are involved.

    Jim
  14. The Count

    The Count New Member

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    ...not to discredit all postal employees but it seems that they have a greater preponderance for going over the deep end. never heard of a fedex or ups guy going ballistic and killing folks at the office....!
  15. Big Shrek

    Big Shrek Active Member

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    I've noticed why UPS workers don't have mental issues ;)
    [​IMG]

    If you worked with Her, your issues would only involve Viagra ;)

    Fed Ex employees, on the other hand...worry me...
    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2010
  16. Big Shrek

    Big Shrek Active Member

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    Yeah, Disposition Records...make sure everything is in your Bound Book.

    And this...
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2010
  17. gdmoody

    gdmoody Moderator Supporting Member

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    I am a postal employee and I can verify that you have to be somewhat crazy, to start with, to even want to work for the PO. :D:D

    I think that we were just the first to have someone go off and kill people at the office so it was called "Going Postal". It has actually happened quite a bit more with other businesses, it is just more publicized with the postal service. I seem to remember someone in some sort of financial investment service going off a few years ago in Atlanta and killing a bunch of his co-workers.
  18. jwmtx

    jwmtx New Member

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    So, I've got a C&R and I buy a pistol and he ships it to me by USPS, and I'm the guilty one. Your logic escapes me. What would you do, run to the BATF and confess?
    James
  19. The Count

    The Count New Member

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    i think i would go nuts too if i had to say "is there anything liquid, perishable or potentially hazardous in this package" a thousand times a day ;-)))
  20. deadin

    deadin Well-Known Member

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    He is definitely putting his license in jeopardy (among other charges). As for accepting the package, I said that I would check with the Postal Inspectors before I put miy FFL03 in danger (and who knows what else they might pile on).
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