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Contrived US Ammunition Shortage

Discussion in 'The Constitutional & RKBA Forum' started by fedupdon, Mar 13, 2009.

  1. fedupdon

    fedupdon New Member

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    Contrived US
    Ammunition Shortage
    From Charleston Voice
    3-8-9

    From an undisclosed, but reliable source. I'd like to know who told Remington to cut back on production....
    ______

    Less than 10 days ago I went to buy my wife a handgun from a large national sporting goods retail outlet near Boise. They have 3 very large sets of shelves that are normally stacked high with every imaginable type of ammo, but on this day they had maybe 2% of their normal stock and 0, yes ZERO .38 cal. When I asked the salesman about it he said that they have not been able to get much and when they do it sells within a few days.

    Because I am so concerned about what is unfolding in our country I decided to check around. Out of 5 major outlets I was able to obtain 2 boxes of .40 cal. and 1 box of .38, 250 rounds total. The story from each salesman was the same, there is none available and they don't know when they will receive more.

    At one location I got talking with the clerk and he told me that his brother works for Remington and has run their ammo making machines for over 10 years, in the past few years they have run 12 hours a day 7 days a week. TWO WEEKS after our last elections their management informed them that they were to cut back to 2 1/2 days a week and only run 8 hour a day. He said they had 50 semi-truck trailers waiting to be loaded but that they could not fill them.

    A small family owned gun store I have dealt with for the last several years had quite a bit available but I was told again that they have scoured the entire area and bought everything they could find to resell, and they thought what they had would be gone by this Monday, tomorrow. After talking more with the owner he told me that last Wednesday and Thursday his staff had spent the entire time calling every gun store in Oregon, Idaho, and Washington and could not locate anything more than a few boxes here and there. While I was in the store he took off to drive all the way to Montana to get what was available there in a few small towns, that is at least a 16 hour round trip drive.

    Apparently over thirty people were waiting for an ammo shipment in Mt. Home, Id. and when the Semi finally arrived it had only 12 boxes of pistol ammo aboard and they were told not to expect anymore in the near future.

    I haven't heard this situation mentioned anywhere, and I would never have discovered it if I hadn't gone to purchase a gun.

    Something very strange is happening out here. I can only hope that it is a local phenomenon, but I fear that is much larger. Please inform your readers so that they can find out for themselves.
  2. islenos

    islenos New Member

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    There are shortages everywhere, due, for the most part, to panic purchases.
  3. Millwright

    Millwright Well-Known Member

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    In some ways the "ammo shortage" reminds me of the "great toilet paper debaclel" created by Johnny Carson a couple of decades' back.......

    Panic buying by hoarders isn't helping, since the major "shortage" is brass. Copper, already a critical material, has been in short supply for some time as some mines have shut down and others are facing declining yields. Offshore sources have their own problems affecting production as well. Add to that increased military consumption in Iraq and training.........

    And remember, as the world develops, its demand for copper increases, too. >MW
  4. Marlin T

    Marlin T Active Member

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    Panic purchases?:(

    I think not! More like a smart investment due to Obombas stances and voting record when it comes to the second amendment.
  5. shuttle28

    shuttle28 New Member

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    I'm probably a total fruit loop on this one but i think you've all missed this one. Lets give this some thought. Here are a few hints. gun control, environmentalist agenda gets card blanche, bogus shortage of materials.



    A government large enough to give you what you want is a government large enough to take what you've got.
  6. CampingJosh

    CampingJosh Moderator

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    I think they are panic purchases even still. Many people, seeing Obama's record, made massive purchases well in advance. Those who did not (or would not) see Obama's real position are now panicking, as they should be.
  7. ponycar17

    ponycar17 Active Member

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    Like I said before, the guy at WalMart laughed at me condescendingly for buying so much BEFORE the election. Now, that WalMart is out of essentially everything. I do not believe the manufacturers have cut back. That is a fallacy. They are not State run, and will not cut back at the expense of profit. I believe demand has ballooned like nothing seen before, and for just cause. People are scared and taking note of every move out of this new Socialist administration. Ballistic fingerprinting, microstamping, registration, confiscation... They're all up for grabs in this administration's agenda. :mad:
  8. Mjolnir

    Mjolnir New Member

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    I also do not see any benefit to the manufacturers cutting back production especially with the huge jump in demand. Anymore it's hard to know what to believe though.
  9. islenos

    islenos New Member

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    I don't know about where you live but the gun stores around here have a lot more people at the counter eyeballing firearms. Largely they are first time buyers asking a lot of questions. What has brought them to the stores? The uncertainty of a chaotic world.

    Then there are ones’ such as myself. I have taken in account the assets at hand and purchasing ammo to fill in the gaps. I don’t feel that my actions are so much panic as are a ‘smart investment’ due to the uncertainty of a chaotic world.

    Either way panic or dread or whatever you call it, has driven seasoned shooters and first time buyers to the counter at the same time, hence the nationwide shortage.
  10. 1shot1k

    1shot1k Former Guest

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    There is something that has happened. I believe most issues have been covered here , but is probably also a situation cause by more than one factor.

    I do not believe it is a "supply in demand" lesson learned from the oil refiner's and distributor's ..for then..I belive we would see desired ammo on the shelves , but , at overnight prohibitive pricing.

    For those too young to remember the "Carter" oil shortage days ....(emphasis on days ) the oil companies learned a valuable lesson from the "lines , fighting , panic and better yet...loss of profits due strictly to closing the tap(s) " and subsequent {local or Fed mandating of - odd/even pump days...etc....}...

    They learned a lesson well ...and you will see it has carried them well into our present day.....that lesson was ( and is ) ....raise the price all needed , just dont tell
    U.S. public there is no oil.....

    As to this ammo shortage , that has become more widespread and reported throughout .....I at first thought that the initial run from election day cause shortages on weapons and ammo that were yet to recover...but if the story is true concerning an insider working at plant....there must be more at hand.

    My first inclination is that there must be more to ..or that we are closer to actual Federal legislation regarding - either , amounts purchasable by individuals or the implementation of the new "ID" ammo.

    It still does not make sense to me though, as any legislation would almost certainly leave room for "grandfathering" existing ammo...unless - earlier meetings have raised this issue of such losses , and the makers are being subsidized even now ...with some of the large amounts of "economy funds" to slow/stop producing while retooling or awaiting legislation.....

    and I dont know about you...but I cant think of many more reasons why such a plant could cut production by half...leaving customers in front of empty shelves...?

    I do also believe though , that ammo has been routed to larger areas for quicker dispersion/sales or to satisfy larger demands...as there is still no dangerous low shortages here in DFW , as reported elsewhere.

    But I firmly believe that if a factory is cutting production by one half..it is being subsidized.......
  11. armedandsafe

    armedandsafe Guest

    The only reason I could understand for cutting back a line would be to ramp up another line or a new line. If that were the case, people would not be working part time.

    Just thought of another possible. If raw material is short,they might cut back a civilian product line to keep their govt contract lines making quota. If that were the case, I suspet there would be announcements.

    Pops
  12. gs1sniper

    gs1sniper New Member

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    In Alabama two weeks ago, a man at the range went to two Wal Mart's and an Academy Sports and no 9mm. If you look on the Hogdon web sight you will see that they are only working 4 days a week. IF they were trying to keep up with demand, why are they not on 24/7?
  13. ponycar17

    ponycar17 Active Member

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    I'm just guessing that you're correct but I do have some background in manufacturing philosphy...

    If they're working 4 days/week they're likely maintaining 1 shift at 10 hrs./day for those 4 days. If they go any larger they'd likely be required to obtain another shift. That's double the cost, and perhaps the cost increase gained in ammo would not justify the cost in another shift?....

    This is a complex matter. As demand increases exponentially, manufacturers have to determine if the demand is sustainable. If it is, they'll increase prices. If those price increases do not stave off demand, then they'll increase production at that price. In the end, the price point is at a reasonable value given the demand.

    Give the market a chance. Price points will stabilize eventually. It may not be your favorite brand on top of the pricing structure (that you choose to buy) but you'll lean to calibrate to a different muzzle velocity and bullet drop in the end... :)
  14. shuttle28

    shuttle28 New Member

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    As I said before, I'm probably a total fruit loop on this one. everyone called me a dumba-- when i pulled out of the stock market at 13000 and predicted 7500, and its not bottomed yet, 3500-5000. Here are a few hints. gun control, environmentalist agenda gets card blanche, bogus shortage of materials. and yes, there are more. the obama administration is evil genius. one step at a time.

    p.s. Lord I hope i'm wrong.



    A government large enough to give you what you want is a government large enough to take what you've got.
  15. artabr

    artabr New Member

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    Unless they started something new, Hodgdon does not make loaded ammo, only gunpowder and some reloading supplies.


    http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/nationwide-ammunition-shortage-hits-us/

    Skyrocketing demand has been emptying the shelves of America's gun stores. Here's why.

    February 28, 2009 - by Bob Owens

    If you, like thousands of other Americans, have Googled to find out why we are in the middle of a nationwide ammunition shortage, you would have stumbled across this 2007 blog entry.

    In it, I corrected a poorly researched Associated Press story by Estes Thompson that claimed the military’s consumption of ammunition was responsible for police ammunition shortages here in the United States. Few things could have been further from the truth, but it seems rather apparent, in retrospect, that the goal of that AP article wasn’t to find the truth as much as it was to (falsely) lay blame for the police ammunition shortages at the feet of George W. Bush.

    The real fact of the matter is that the military got the bulk of its small arms (pistol, rifle, machine gun) ammunition from one contracted ammunition plant, and that plant wasn’t even running near capacity. The military’s consumption clearly wasn’t to blame, and anecdotal evidence and statements from ammunition manufacturers strongly suggested that police departments themselves caused the 2007 ammunition shortage by purchasing far more ammunition than they had in the past.

    But what is causing our current ammunition shortages here in 2009?

    Much of the demand comes from continued high law enforcement demand, the same demand that led to shortages two years ago. Police agencies around the nation have become more militarized in recent years and two trends within this militarization have led to greater police ammunition demand.

    An increase in the size and number of paramilitary police units

    Once upon a time, highly trained, heavily armed police units with alphabet-soup acronyms such as SWAT, SRT, SRU, or ERT were generally found as part of large, metropolitan police departments. Today, law enforcement agencies of every size — including some university police forces — have SWAT-type units armed with some combination of submachine guns, assault rifles, and sniper rifles to add to the traditional compliment of pistols and shotguns. To become proficient to the level expected of these units, each officer must fire thousands of rounds in training every year.

    An increase in the use of “patrol carbines” in law enforcement

    Some agencies prefer to call them “patrol carbines”; others refer to them as “tactical rifles.” But whatever you call them, rifles based upon the AR-15 are becoming increasingly common as a weapon deployed to police officers outside of SWAT units, for some very logical reasons. AR-type rifles extend the range at which patrol officers can engage armed criminals, and because rifles have more practical accuracy than pistols, they can potentially reduce the number of shots fired to neutralize a suspect. Paired with the right kind of ammunition, the .223 Remington/5.56mm caliber rifle also has surprisingly less over-penetration, theoretically reducing threats to civilians who might be downrange. Each of these weapons will also require officers carrying them to fire hundreds of rounds in training each year, and in a city that rotates rifles from one shift to another among their patrol units, this can necessitate tens of thousands of rounds of training ammunition.

    Fears of draconian gun and ammunition restrictions

    The 2008 elections that saw the Democratic Party extend their power in both houses of Congress and saw Barack Obama elected president made gun owners very nervous, and with good reason.

    We have a president that has favored gun bans and who desires to reinstate the horribly flawed 1994 assault weapons ban authored by our rather dim vice president. We also have radically anti-gun majority leaders in both the House of Representatives and Senate, and a Congress quite willing to pass massive, bloated laws without even bothering to read the contents. Fears of encroachment are certainly warranted.

    Economic instability

    As economies become unstable and people lose jobs, crime rates go up. It is an economic fact of life. Many people who are worried about an increase in crime arm themselves during economic downturns, leading to an increased demand for firearms and ammunition.

    As a result of all of these factors, manufacturers of firearms and ammunition saw demand increase to unprecedented levels as civilians have made a run on the kind of firearms they suspect that gun control advocates presently in charge will try to outlaw.

    This includes all handguns, all semi-automatic rifles (especially those targeted by the 1994 assault weapons bill that expired in 2004), and most semi-automatic shotguns.

    Matt Reams of Sierra Bullets noted that after the 2008 presidential election demand shot up 50%-100% for bullets used by handguns or rifles in military calibers, and says, “Law enforcement has seemed to increase quite a bit the last year or so. The individuals jumped in after the elections and pushed our orders over the top when we were already running in high gear.”

    Federal Premium/ATK is the largest ammunition manufacturer in the world, running the Lake City Army Ammunition Plant for the U.S. military under contract; it also is a major supplier of law enforcement and civilians. In a statement, the company noted “unprecedented demand” for law enforcement ammunition. While other corporations are presently laying off workers and shutting down operations, ATK is in the middle of capital improvements to further increase production capability.

    Rick Shoupe of PMC Ammunition, which has a more civilian-focused market for his company’s products, reflected in his explanation:

    Shortly before the presidential election the dam broke as far as U.S. gun and ammunition sales are concerned. I believe it is a reaction by the general public because of two main reasons. Number one, the political environment which results from the attitudes about gun control in the majority of Congress and the president himself. They are anti-gun. Number two, the current financial crisis in the U.S. has added to the frenzy, causing again the general public to want some sort of personal protection. Just in case they need it.

    We are seeing a bubble in demand like I have never seen before and I have been in this business for 35 years. This demand is in addition to the military and law enforcement that also continues. PMC has expanded production to try and handle as much of the demand as it can before the demand starts to drop. Even so, the first scent of legislation being introduced to Congress will light another candle in the demand for these products. It will not end until the legislation is passed.

    Individual shooters are stockpiling thousands of rounds of ammunition because of fears of future punitive taxation or outright bans of certain kinds of ammunition. Law enforcement agencies are also stockpiling ammunition to make sure they have enough on hand to meet training requirements. The shortage we are seeing is the result of both agencies and private citizens hoarding the most sought-after ammunition.

    Thus, this shortage is the result of an accordion effect that has developed over the past few years.

    Law enforcement agencies have been rapidly increasing their ammunition consumption because of how they are rearming, causing a permanent increase in demand. Just as ammunition manufacturers began to cope with that increase, a second run, based upon a downward-turning economy and rising fears of laws targeting gun and ammunition, dramatically expanded demand yet again.

    Shortages of ammunition and firearms can be expected to continue for as long as it appears our overreaching federal government is a threat to our individual liberties, our economy continues to falter, and our police agencies keep militarizing.

    It’s going to be a long ride.

    Stock up while you can.




    Art
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2009
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