Discussion in 'Self Defense Tactics & Weapons' started by satellite66, Nov 9, 2006.
This is some wild event. Thank God he lived to talk about it.
Yea that was pretty crazy
Where was his back up gun? Is he from N.J. or Canada? A head shot woul'd had stopped him.
An incident like this does point out just how underpowered a handgun actually is, and why shot placement in the heart-lung area is so important. A gut-shot perp may end up bleeding out eventually, but it may be too late for the officer. I'd be curious to know what the officer was using, a 9mm perhaps?
I would've liked to have seen what a shot from the Taurus .410 revolver would've done to this man's chest, certainly more than that handgun the officer was using.
I think the officer would had been better off using a Taser
I believe he was using pepper spray, probabally out of date, cheap, stuff, and a bad aim as well...I dont think ol' big boy would be so tough after a couple hot rounds wizzed through him.
I could not tell from the video that he even had a taser. I have to believe that before he used deadly force he would have used it if he had one. I also am amazed that someone can tell the brand and expiration date of his pepper spray from the tape.
Apparently he tried to use pepper spray at first, but it had little effect, Crp. Not too surprising really; that stuff is not as effective as most people think. I gather he did shoot the perp, but even that didn't seem to slow him down much.
I don't think he had a taser and he did douse him with pepper spray. In many small towns across America there may only be a couple cops on duty. They might be covering a large area and have to do things alone. His backup could have been 10 minutes away? Maybe more. I thought the cop used lots of restraint. It was clear his life was in jeopardy from that guy. If that guy knocked him out and got his gun. He was lucky but so was the bad guy.
Small town AND ten minutes away?
Cant have it both ways, I can go a long way in ten minutes just going the speed limit without overheads and a siren.
Well I bow to your expertise. Are you trying to bait me with this? If you want me to leave the forum just say so. I am not going to argue anymore with a monday morning quarterback.
The cop did show amazing restraint, maybe because he realized he was under powered? He did not have a baton, but that may not have been effective without a well placed hit. The perp was a big guy. I was scared for the cop, just watching it. Both men were lucky.
Lessons that are evident:
Agitated people can fight through OC spray. Even the extremely high and sometimes illegal concentrated stuff can be overcome. (This is a fact I learned in bodyguard training. All of us had to fight 15 minutes with OC on the eyelids. Our class was very diverse and all were able to function enough to qualify a passing score.)
Distance is key to survival. Had the bad guy had a knife or heavy blunt weapon the cop would be dead...because he maintained no standoff.
Absence of distance makes employing a sidearm very hard. Just standing and shooting a sidearm is not enough training unless your enemy will be in a wheelchair. On your back, on your belly, on your sides, on your knees. (Rolling a truck tire up an incline with your weak hand, while on your knees, and drawing/dry firing is a lot more realistic than paper targets at 7 yards.)
People move very fast in a close fight. Vitals are extremely difficult to target up close. A person not proficient in practice stress fire will likely not prevail in real stress.
Stress fire should be done with physical excertion. (After 100 heartbeats per minute, precision motor ability steadily decreases. One must be conditioned to stress effects to fire accurately when his/her own body is working against his/her effort.)
Physical stamina and agility are a must in a gunfight. That cop was exhausted. "Sweat in training so as not to bleed in battle!"
A cop should have a backup gun!!!
A magazine disconnect safety would have been a very good thing for that cop. He could've dropped the mag before getting the weapon stripped away. "If I can't use it, nobody will!"
Thank you and no, I never made you type a thing.
I'd never ask you or anyone else to leave, heck I kinda like ya and enjoy following your writings. If you haven't noticed I've been very respectfull to you and have actually enjoied our debate, I got the sense that you did too...I certainly never expected to hear you talk of leaving.
Anyway I hate football.
Just what I was thinking, Delta. I was surprised that the cop didn't put a little distance or a vehicle between him and the perp. Not to say that he should have run away or anything, but that would have certainly made his firearm more useful. I was curious at the end why the officer didn't fire anymore after he had retrieved his weapon. I know it was jammed, but appeared that he had several seconds in which he could have cleared the weapon.
Easier said than done under the circumstances, I know. Just glad I wasn't in his shoes.
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