Covenants Old and New -Who is Israel

Discussion in 'Religious Discussions' started by Skyking, Dec 28, 2011.

  1. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

    Dec 20, 2008
    West Tennessee
    Tim will probably ring in and say what HE meant by this, but I can say what it means to me.

    The Bondage of Legalism is what a group is being hampered by when they emphasize that THEY have some ONE SINGLE thing right that everyone else has wrong.
    They select a day of the week and proclaim that everyone is wrong if they do not recognize THAT day as THE day we are to dedicate to God.
    They select ONE name for God from somewhere in Scripture and proclaim that everyone is wrong if they refer to God by any other name.

    We had visitors one Sunday when we commemorated the Lords Supper (called Communion in some churches). The man got me aside after service and castigated me because we did not have a foot-washing before sharing the bread and cup. He apparently remembered nothing of the message, the fellowship, the psalms we sang, the prayers we shared; his mind was engulfed by ONE thing which to him overshadowed all else; we had not washed each others feet before sharing the bread and the fruit of the vine.
    That, to me, is the bondage of legalism.
  2. tcox4freedom

    tcox4freedom Well-Known Member

    That's a good example Terry.

    If I have to explain the "bondage" that Christ came and set us free from, I fear you must not "TRUELY" understand the sacrifice Jesus made for us.

    What Paul is really saying in Galations is "IF" you feel that certain OT "laws" should be followed in order for one to be saved, you then "MUST" follow ALL the LAW!

    The ENTIRE premise behind salvation through Jesus Christ and HIM alone, if the fact that "NO" part of following the LAW is capable of getting you saved; or winning you the FAVOR of of GOD.

    The ONLY way to salvation is accepting Jesus as the fullfillment & embodiment of the LAW. By believing in what JESUS did for us and cofessing HIS sacrifice and our sinfulness, we can have "ALL" the fullfillment of the law in our lives.

    Indeed, NOTHING short of this acceptance can SAVE us; nor can we TRUELY understand the "LIBERTY" which Christ has given to us through HIS sacrifice.

    I think I will also bring this passage back to your remembrance as well:

    "Emphasis" mine
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2011

  3. Skyking

    Skyking New Member

    Dec 9, 2011
    A few good articles and videos

    The Seven Everlasting Covenants
    September/October 2005
    The most common argument put forth by Christians in opposition to the Torah and the Law is based on Covenant Theology. They argue that the New Covenant has replaced the Old Covenant. Our printed English Bibles are organized that way. There is an old part and new part. This has to do with their definition of “covenant.” They define “covenants” in the Old Testament more like contracts. Then there is the word “Testament” and its definition. The New Testament is treated like it is “God’s Last Will and Testament,” replacing (the Old Testament) His former Last Will and Testament. Just as governments put a new law on the books replacing an old law, Christians will say that God did the same by replacing the Law of Moses with the Law of Christ. But is this what the Bible really says? Are God’s covenants conditional like a contract? Did God make a New Last Will and “Testament” as a result of the Messiah’s death?

    What is NEW about the New Covenant?

    June 2008
    Does the New Covenant mean the end of Israel or mean that the Church represents a NEW fulfillment of the prophecies given to Israel? Jeremiah gave a prophecy he called the New Covenant revealing something wonderful that God had planned for the two houses of Israel, namely, the northern kingdom of Israel and the southern kingdom of Judah. It is part of God’s plan to reunite and restore the separated northern and southern kingdoms of Israel. God would make another NEW covenant with all of Israel.

    What Exactly is Replacement Theology?

    May 2008
    Virtually everyone in the Messianic Movement says that Replacement Theology is not correct, that it is a great teaching error of the historical church. Even Evangelical churches today deny Replacement Theology and go out of their way to prove they are “pro-Israel” in their support. For most, Replacement Theology is simply defined as “the church replacing Israel.” However, if you examine Replacement Theology a bit further, you will discover that it is much more extensive than just saying “the church has replaced Israel.” Replacement Theology is still very much with us all, including Messianic congregations. So, what exactly is Replacement Theology?

    God keeps His covenants forever

    Jim Staley - Case for the Covenant (And the Reason for the Second Coming)
    This is a very good video
    What is the purpose for the Messiah coming back the second time anyway? What is the number one goal of His heart for His people? In this teaching, Jim goes through virtually every single prophetic scripture in the entire Old Testament and many in the New that have to do with His Second Coming. From there he shows the striking and obvious conclusion that it ALL has to do with His Covenant. It is impossible to listen to this teaching and walk away believing anything other than His biggest agenda is to get us to keep His Covenant, His instructions, His "Wedding Vows"....His Torah.

  4. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

    Jan 11, 2010
    Messianic Movement ?
  5. Caneman

    Caneman Active Member

    Oct 22, 2010
    i never really enjoy these discussions on legalism, never really seems to change any hearts... if folks want to follow rules so they can feel good about their relationship with God then so be it, and if they want to say you are wrong because you don't follow their rules then so be it...

    i only want to do right because i love Him, it won't earn me anymore favor or acceptance from the Lord than i already have right now, but i want to bear fruit just because of how awesome He is and how He good He is to me... these aren't my ideas but i like them:

    do you work (obedience) to be loved - legalism

    or do you work because of love - relationship with the Lord Jesus

    lovers always outwork workers...
  6. Skyking

    Skyking New Member

    Dec 9, 2011
    I understand all to well all that was done on calvary and ever since certain items have come to my attention there has never been any "bondage " nor should there be.
  7. tcox4freedom

    tcox4freedom Well-Known Member

    Amen to that my brother; and I am glad to hear it.

    Real bondage comes when we feel that Christ's sacrifice was not enough.

    Real bondage comes when we feel there is more "required" of us to be justified in our "FAITH".

    We become "bondservants" to the LAW when we believe there is something "more" (than just trusting in Jesus) we should do in order to find favor with God.

    Jesus fulfilled ALL the requirements of the Law. By accepting this TRUTH and trusting in HIM as the fulfillment of the LAW, we also are "justified".

    Sure, James tells us that "works" must go along with our Faith. (I believe that with all my heart.) But, works has nothing to do with when & where we worship GOD. Nor does "salvation" or "justification" in the eyes of God have anything to do with such things. (On this I hope we can agree.)

    Last edited: Dec 30, 2011
  8. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

    Dec 20, 2008
    West Tennessee

    Mark 12:28-34 (KJV);
    28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
    29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
    30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
    31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
    32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
    33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
    34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.
  9. Skyking

    Skyking New Member

    Dec 9, 2011
    Threshold covenant

    I first learned about this particular covenant this past Passover and was very interested in learning all about it.Here's a short {17 min} video that is quite informative

    The Threshold Covenant
    played a vital role in Passover and Yeshua's fulfillment of Yahweh's Spring feasts. In this introductory teaching, you should walk away with a better understanding of some of the covenant language that defines the covenant we are in with our Creator. When Yeshua said He was the door, it actually means something quite significant when we walk through it.
  10. Skyking

    Skyking New Member

    Dec 9, 2011
    Movie Named Asher Coming Out!

    I always look forward to hearing what this guy has to say and I couldn't have said it any better

    Movie Named Asher Coming Out!


    ASHER tells the story of Paul Rueda, an ambitious college student who goes undercover in a militant religious organization known as The Black Israelites to write a college paper that he believes will make him famous.

    "The Israelites" are known for their fiery sermons on the streets of New York.

    Their main beliefs are that Blacks and Latinos are the true Chosen People of the Bible; that the world is controlled by a secret society known as the Illuminati who has spent thousands of years plotting the domination of the world, and that the Earth is in its final days.

    As Paul enters their world he befriends Zebulon, a rising member who Paul hopes to exploit for information. However, Paul gets in over his head when he begins to "see" evidence that seems to prove the group's claims, in particular, the belief that the Illuminati has started a plan to kill off the population of the world through biological weapons such as anthrax, and diseases like ... More