Crimson grips on concealed gun..Thoughts??

Discussion in 'Self Defense Tactics & Weapons' started by bluerunner1, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. bluerunner1

    bluerunner1 New Member

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    Thinking of putting Crimson trace grips on my sig P-230. for concealed carry, will they hold up, how bright in outdoors, and what about comfort, holster drag.
  2. pinecone70

    pinecone70 Active Member

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    For me, it came down to a wimpy 40 hour total battery life or a 1mm switch on the bottom of the grip. I won't trust my life to something that tedious, especially in a high-stress situation. Holster drag is also a problem with any rubberized grip. I had CT grips as a package deal with a firearm I purchased, I would not have otherwise paid the price for CT.

    Just my opinion, there are plenty out there. ;)
  3. retired grunt

    retired grunt New Member

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    I have the Ct's on my Colt defender. Same batteries for 3 years in Dec. ( I never shut the switch off) If I can see the front sight that is how I shoot. The CT's excel in low light conditions. I can't speak to the holster drag as my grips do not contact my holster.
    Bottom line I like mine and have found them to be 100% reliable and very accurate to shoot with.
  4. Just One Shot

    Just One Shot Member

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    I have the CT on my M&P .40 Compact and it's been great.

    I also don't have an issue with holster drag. Mine are grip mounted so they never contact any of my holsters either IWB or OWB. I'm still on the original batteries so that hasn't been an issue either.

    One thing to remember is that a laser is not the all in all in an add on but they do have a place in the self defense tool box. In the right situation they could be the difference between you or the BG walking away.

    As with anything related to SD, knowing when and how to deploy the device is critical. Also, practicing with and without the device is extremely important.
  5. johnlives4christ

    johnlives4christ Former Guest

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    i have mixed feelings about lasers on concealed carry guns.

    i think it could be a deterrent in a self defense situation, but i think it could also cause problems.

    i dont think that the laser will benefit much in an actual shooting but if the battery goes dead and you need the gun i think it will slow you down when you realize the batteries dead.

    i wouldnt have problems carrying a laser equipped gun, but i would be careful to practice as though it wasn't there, so that in the event it didnt work when needed i could immediately revert to non laser mode
  6. bluerunner1

    bluerunner1 New Member

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    I shoot the 230 often, but like all my other handguns iam not the best. I was thinking of the laser as an aid only. After looking at pics of the grip on a 230-232 i noticed the laser is sticking above the slide. I was thinking this could cause a problem. would love to hear from someone that has seen or fired this mod sig with crimson grip.
  7. todd51

    todd51 Well-Known Member

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    I've got CT grips on my daily carry Ruger LCR. It is carried most of the time in a DeSantis pocket holster. The grips are now about a year old and I still am on the original battery and never turn it off.

    I have never been in a high stress defense situation and hope that never occurs but I practice for that situation. I find the grips useless in outdoor day time situations. But very useful in low light or indoor practice situations. This practice is what I guess you would refer to as point shooting. Just pull the gun point and shoot. In day light outdoor practice I don't even see the red dot. But I am not "aiming", I am just pointing at center mass and shooting. But move into lower light situation practice you pull the gun out of the holster and point and there is that red dot. You don't have to look for it as it is just there. I would be pulling, pointing and shooting the same way even if I didn't have the CT grips but they really seem to me to be a great aid in difficult situations. So far I don't see a down side to them. But in the dark where you can't see much at all you are going to be real glad those grips are on your gun. IMHO.
  8. UncleFudd

    UncleFudd Member

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    May I interject some thoughts backed by some practical, test applications.

    The last 10 years that I owned and operated my indoor range and performed instruction of some sort nearly every day, I had this very question come up on more occasions than I can count. I might add that even LEO departments in the area considered allowing their use, (for a while).

    I even had the opportunity to participate in some testing of these devices during an IALEFI, international conference in Mesa Az back in the 90s and the results were anything but flattering.

    I placed laser sights, including Cts on several handguns and then set about trying them in as many different situations and users as possible to see the outcome. This result is unequivocal, the open sight is faster and more accurate than the lasers in every combination we tried. Man V woman, woman v woman, man v man, young v older, it did not matter the person using the open sights got their shots off first and more accurately than the laser users, period.

    Next, using the same individuals using the same guns to get some experience using the laser sights in some cases their own guns, we found this to be absolute as well. Even when the light worked and even in low light conditions, (open sight users had the option of night sights) open sights still trumped and if I/we, the instructors pulled the batteries or turned off the switch (unknown by the user) the laser shooters were repeatedly trying to get the light to come on while the open sight guns were busy dispatching the threat.

    This was extremely compounded when we put everyone in actual threat situations using airsoft or paintball rounds. The bottom line is when the light did not light, the guys and gals were busy trying to find it and getting shot almost exclusively.

    The ONLY time the lasers are close to accurate is when the shooter takes the time to steady the dot and press the trigger and for some reason the bullet NEVER and I mean NEVER hits the dot, period. It is true, it may be close and you may be on paper, but the open sight shooter is faster and more accurate every time with first shots. Remember, your threat/bad guy may be armed and uninhibited in any way about dispatching you and all your loved ones to get whatever he/she/they came into your home or business to acquire.

    One last item. I mentioned working with a large police dept and actually shooting a glock 22 they had installed a top of the line laser sight. It was set dead on at 20 feet. When we shot it at further distances it was nearly off the target at 50 feet and skipped the round into the target at 25 yards. In addition they displayed different colored clothing that actually absorbs most of the red dot and I mean you literally could not see it against the backdrop.

    So as the range owner and instructor, for the past 5 years or more I refuse to sell a laser of any kind to anyone planning to mount them for CCW or self defense guns.

    My thoughts and experiences only but all are backed by the people who participated in our testing situations.
    Food for thought being as how you asked.

    UF
  9. AngelDeville

    AngelDeville New Member

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    Quit bolting crap on your gun and spend the money on practice ammo....


    just my good natured two cents.....
  10. Boris

    Boris Former Guest

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    I used to think lazers on guns were ninja tools. About 2.5 years ago I got a P22 with the factory laser. They had a deal going on and it cost a tad more than the non laser P22 so I got it just for giggles. The laser was a priceless aid in training my 5 year old boy proper sight alignment. He is 7 now and can flat out shoot, without the laser.

    About a year after I got that 22 with laser I went on my last deployment. I had a visible red laser on my rifle for an entire year. I can tell you without a doubt in my mind I did NOT shoot atleast 7 people because I used a laser on them. Period. I dont care who you are. No real person wants to shoot anyone. God only knows if I would have had a visible laser of some sort on my other tours..

    I told my wife about 3 months ago, right about the time I got home that I wanted a good laser on my housegun. Well about 3 days ago my wife gave me my anniversary present. She did the research. Got me a real good waterproof durable laser with alot of good consumer reviews. She got me a Lasermax Uni-max. The little laser with a rail built on the bottom.

    This thing is nice little laser. The very little extra weight is hard to notice. It is very very bright. Now the good thing of all this is I know from first hand experience what a person will do when they see a laser. On top of that this thing is BRIGHT and the pulse mode will blind anyone, and yes it is easy to get it into the eyes, done it more than enough times. If the laser does not get them running then I have ten 230 grain HSTs to help change a mind.

    I would rather them run off than shoot them. I also just found a Fobus holster that will work with it so I can still carry it.

    I can tell you right now a laser is more than an aiming aid. The psychological effects of that laser in the eyes or on the chest has kept me from shooting people.

    I used to be a laser hater. I learned real fast that they have way too many pros and very few cons to not use them.

    We all have opinions. We all need to do what we think is right for ourselves. My experience tells me lasers are valuable tools. I would put one on the XD9 Service but that gun despite its rail was not designed to take any kind of laser, they just do not fit right. The Unimax looks like it was designed for the Glock. It adds no extra width to it....
  11. carver

    carver Moderator

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    This is just about what I thought. Been thinking about investing in one myself, but can't get it my head that I would be better off with one. Though I have never used a laser on a gun, and don't know anything about them, I do know that the more stuff there is on any product, the more that can go wrong. Murphy's law was stolen from my family, and should have been Bryant's law, if any thing can go wrong at the worst possibile time, it will. I think I will stick with the front sight. After all a pistol is a close range tool, and most gun fights occur at very close ranges. I have asked my self many times what I would do if I found a red dot on my body. Would I turn and run, or assuming that I am going to be shot, will I shoot back first if I can? Since I can't run, I suppose I would have to try to shoot first. Assuming that the shooter with the laser is right handed, shoot just a little right of the laser.
  12. pickenup

    pickenup Active Member

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    First thing I have to say about them, is that they are quite a TOY.

    Personally, I would never depend on one to save my life. About the time you do, that will be the first time it fails, dead batteries or whatever reason. Along with the fact that the “beam” can be followed back to the gun in your hand, giving the enemy something to shoot AT, if there are ANY particulates in the air like smoke, dust, etc.

    Had a Crimson Trace on my 1911. Used it for a year in the flashlight/low-light match, worked great. But, the CT only intersects the target at one point. If the target is closer or farther away than that, accuracy is a bit diminished. Of course this is the best choice on revolvers. I have never tried one of those that hang off the trigger guard.

    That being said, if you have a semi-auto and you want one that is accurate at any distance (barring ballistics of course) get a Laser Max. It replaces the barrel guide, so it always points the same way as the barrel. I have one on my SIG 226. Have had it for years. LOVE IT.

    Every third month, our combat pistol league holds a flashlight and lowlight match. On the lowlight side, I use the SIG with the LaserMax in it. On the flashlight side I just add a (hand-held) flashlight, but still use the laser. It is a blast. You can shoot from any angle/position and hit the target. Some of the other competitors were heckling me, when "they" had to go to (at least) one knee to shoot through a barrel. I just leaned over a bit, put the dot on the target, and shot through the barrel.

    If you have a chance to USE the LaserMax, get it. It’s just that I don’t know many people who get to practice in the dark/lowlight conditions. Do you have some place where you can "practice" with it? If your getting it for the “cool” effect, you are wasting your money. To use it for home/self defense? You will have to make up your own mind.

    While you “can” use them, they do NOT work well in full daylight, you spend too much time trying to find the dot. And as UncleFudd alluded to, if you are used to using it, and it doesn't work, you would probably be dead in a real life situation. While you are looking for a dot that isn't there, the bad guy is shooting you. (At a match one time, the batteries finally gave out after 5 years, and I couldn't figure out why I couldn't find the dot. DUH) IMO
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