D.EGG

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by jmr57, Jul 17, 2011.

  1. jmr57

    jmr57 New Member

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    got an old double barrel muzzloading shotgun, percussion, makers name marking is D.EGG looks to be 80-90% to me. anybody got a value estimate (or guess) THANKS !!
  2. RJay

    RJay Well-Known Member

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    your old double could be worth 4 to 6 thousand. Pictures would help incorrect identification and price estimate.:) Need full length clear photos and photos of all markings. Pull the forearm and show the proof markings
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2011
  3. rhmc24

    rhmc24 Member

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    D. Egg was one of the more famous English gun makers from Ca.1770-1834 (per my books). The faking of famous English names on guns made in Belgium was common in the 1800s. If proven to be a genuine D. Egg piece, you have some serious value.
  4. hrf

    hrf Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to the forum.

    Boothroyd's Directory lists Durs Egg's death in London 1831 but states the business continued under that name until 1865, so a percussion gun may date later than 1830s. Here's a percussion double for comparison: http://www.littlegun.info/arme britannique/artisan efg/a egg gb.htm

    But as stated by RJay and rhmc24, there were Belgian knockoffs marked D. Egg, so the barrels should be removed carefully to view proofmarks.
  5. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

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    Ya know, we generally use the 1830s as the starting point of the use of percussion cap ignition systems. Was recently reading a book on Remington's History and noted that in 1807, a Scotsman, the Rev. Alexander Forsythe was granted a Royal Patent for that device. It is certainly possible that as the percussion cap was accepted, gradually, by the gunmaking fraternity - it would have been first accepted by the higher end makers who could easily incorporate the system into their custom builds for the wealthier customers.
    All that being said, it is my OPINION that earliest use is eminimently possible in the years between 1807 and 1830 in an increasingly larger number of examples. Thank you.
    :cool:
  6. RJay

    RJay Well-Known Member

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    If I remember correctly and with out going to the books ( always a bad ideal, but this is Sunday ) Egg was a pioneer in the use of percussion caps.
  7. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    Durs Egg was a top quality maker; his guns are usually characterized by good quality engraving, gold inlaid bands at the breech, and "D * EGG * LONDON" inlaid in gold in the barrel as well as engraved on the lockplate. Still, Wilkinson shows a Ferguson breech loader made by Egg that appears very plain, as would be expected of a military pattern rifle.

    The name on anything other than a high grade gun would, IMHO, be suspect.

    As to the percussion system itself, Forsyth did invent the use of fulminating powder for ignition of the charge in a firearm, but I don't think he invented the percussion cap itself. Forsyth first simply put his powder in a flintlock-like pan, where it was struck by the hammer. Then he developed the so-called "scent bottle" lock, with the fulminate powder in a small "bottle" (resembling the perfume bottle of the day) which was turned over so a measured amount of fulminate would drop into the pan. This design allowed carrying multiple priming charges without the danger of the whole reservoir exploding at once. This was followed by the development, by Forsyth and others, of the priming pill, the priming tube and, around 1820, the percussion cap basically as we know it today. Joshua Shaw, of Philadelphia*, is usually credited with inventing the percussion cap, but the claim is often disputed.

    All in all, 1830 is not a bad estimate for the time when the percussion cap came into fairly common use, though there may have been isolated uses prior to that. It did not come into general military use until after 1840, and many hunters still used flintlocks long after that date.

    *American writers describe him as American; English writers say he was an Englishman, living in America. Maybe he was an "illegal."

    Jim
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2011
  8. RJay

    RJay Well-Known Member

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    Found it, don't know if its accurate but here it is. In reference to the percussion cap, on or about 1814/1815 " Manton and another English gunsmith, Joseph Egg are said to have developed the copper percussion cap in England, While a Captain Shaw patented the ideal in America in 1814 . From "The Complete Handgun" by Ian V. Hogg.:) Durs Egg was Uncle to Joseph Egg and a contemporary of Manton. So, yes, Durs Egg could have made and sold a percussion firearm using his nephews and Manton's development. Forsyth's inventions was the percussion firing, somewhat like a percussion pill. J.Egg, Manton and old Capt. Shaw developed the "Top Hat" copper percussion cap. Guns were made using Forsyth's roll of percussion pills ( fed from what was called the perfume or scent bottle ) but were quickly surpassed by the use of the copper cap. If I didn't believe in the goodness and purity of the human soul, I would think Capt. Shaw was a Sea Captain who picked up the ideal in England, and as soon as he hit dry land in the U.S. he hot tailed it to the patent office, Hmmm, sounds like a gentleman by the name of Colt, but Colt was smart enough to Patent his purloined ideals first in England.
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2011
  9. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

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    Great Info, gents.
  10. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    In a passage in Greener's The Gun, the famous English sportsman and writer, Col. Hawker, is quoted as saying that he came up with the idea, "made a drawing of it and took it to Joe [Manton]" who made a gun using the concept and "we now see it in general circulation." That invention seems to have been about 1816, but Manton apparently did not immediately turn to using the cap across the board, instead promoting his own invention, the tube detonator. The tube had advantages but one rather large disadvantage was that it blew out to the side and could injure another shooter.

    Interesting discussion, but I rather doubt we shall ever know the full story of who invented what and when.

    Jim
  11. RJay

    RJay Well-Known Member

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    I have also read that the tube detonator was easy to install but the devils work to remove. BTW, I wonder which came first, :Dthe cap or D. Egg :bleh:
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2011
  12. BullShoot

    BullShoot New Member

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    "...I wonder which came forst, the cap or D. Egg :bleh:"

    Oops, I think you "MUFFed" your line.

    :rolleyes:
  13. jmr57

    jmr57 New Member

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    thanks to all.....here are the photos of proof marks and of the gun. It has some issues that need fixing, but was wondering value of this D.Egg

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  14. hrf

    hrf Well-Known Member

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    It has Birmingham, England black powder proof marks. But the quality is well below that of the usual products by Durs Egg, and if genuine probably turned out by his successors well after his 1831 death.

    The rib has come unsoldered and the hole in forend is unfortunate. Decorator value as is maybe a couple hundred.
  15. Buffalochip

    Buffalochip Active Member

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    The thimble can be resoldered--or at the least JB Welded back onto to the rib so it isn't lost. That hole is fairly common. If you have decent woodworking skills, it can be patched with a piece of wood and blended in so it isn't quite so noticeable. Otherwise, I'd leave it alone and hang it on the wall where it belongs.

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