December 7, 1941 and September 1, 2001

Discussion in 'The Constitutional & RKBA Forum' started by 45Auto, Feb 18, 2011.

  1. RunningOnMT

    RunningOnMT New Member

    Nov 19, 2008
    Akron, Ohio
    I wonder how much of the cost attributed to the GWOT would be necessary anyway just to maintain the military. It seems when figures are quoted they are for total defense spending.

    One thing about comparing our economy today with the WWII era is that today we have so much more allocated to social programs and entitlements than we did back then, so any increase at all puts a squeeze on the budget.

    There might be more for defense, which is one of the few constitutional responsibilities of the federal government, if they weren't spending so much trying to manage every facet of our lives.

    I have to say that after having been a strong supporter of the war on both fronts, I am beginning to look at things differently. I think it's time to do some serious soul searching and ask if these military operations are really necessary for the security of ourselves and our allies. We invest so much in dollars and human life fighting wars overseas yet fail to properly protect our borders from foreign invasion. We need to stop with this nation building, stay home and "build" our economy and our infrastructure instead.

    Better security measures would likely do at least as much good as the GWOT has to this point. Force these muslim coutries to root out the terrorists in their midst by putting them on notice that we will respond to any future attack planned or originating from within their borders as acts of war, that will receive a swift and harsh response from us. The ICBM could be our best tool for the restoration of a prosperous free world.
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2011
  2. ofitg

    ofitg Active Member

    Feb 25, 2010
    The last I heard, the gov't was borrowing 40 cents for every dollar that it spends, and the numbers show that our economic weakness is largely because of reckless domestic spending. I think this is why so many people are upset with the federal gov't. There is a dire need to pay down that $14 trillion debt, and the politicos don't have the guts to do it.

    Other factors come to mind - it seems insane (to me, at least) that we have exported so many jobs, allowing our own industrial base to crumble. That weakens us even more.

    As 45Auto mentioned, the whole country pulled together during WW2, and it might take a similar effort now just to put our house back into order. Everybody would make some sacrifice. Federal spending needs to come down, and federal revenues need to go up (that probably means higher taxes).

  3. jbmid1

    jbmid1 Well-Known Member

    Feb 3, 2011
    Tucson, AZ
    Good point OFTIG.
    The reckless domestic spendidg is the biggest problem now. Obama and his cohorts have already spent trillions while Congress argues over a thousand here, a thousand there. It will take a lot of us working together to bring things back into order.
  4. al45lc

    al45lc Active Member

    Mar 8, 2010
    colorful colorado
    Some misconceptions, at it's peak, production of war goods in WWII comprised only 40% of the U.S. economy. Hardly the entire country.
    The tax burden on the average american was 21% in 1944, it's peak.
    These according to the Economic History Assoc.
  5. ofitg

    ofitg Active Member

    Feb 25, 2010
    I think we face a lot of problems - the economy is a big one - and the people who caused most of those problems are right here in the U.S.

    They're playing the U.S. public like a fiddle.
  6. 45Auto

    45Auto Well-Known Member

    Apr 9, 2008
    I could not agree more. They play us like a fiddle and they know the toons we want to hear.

    For generations, U.S. consumers have long been the subjects of behavioral studies and research by advertizing corporations. They track each market and sub-market of consumers. The carefully researched techniques used to sell junk food are also used to sell junk political ideas.

    They don't care what you as an individual are thinking, but they know group dynamics inside and out.
  7. lentz

    lentz Former Guest

    Mar 12, 2010
    there is no war on terror. when was the last time you were terrorized?
  8. Double D

    Double D Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 16, 2009
    North Florida
    ?? Without the war on terror, you could answer that question.
  9. Gun Geezer

    Gun Geezer Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2009
    Central Florida
    I just wonder what the effect it would have had on the war effort if we had the modern day unions back then?
  10. 45Auto

    45Auto Well-Known Member

    Apr 9, 2008
    The Unions have only a fraction of the power they once had. It may have wrecked the economy, but outsourcing U.S. jobs and U.S. industries to communist China stripped the unions of members and cash. Of course, many non-union jobs also were outsourced, but that's another story.

    At any rate, the Unions are not dead but they are not the threat they used to be.
  11. jbmid1

    jbmid1 Well-Known Member

    Feb 3, 2011
    Tucson, AZ
    There was a strike at Goodyear that took place while the Iraq war was in full swing.
    Created serious shortages of tires for HMMWVs. Enough to turn me against the unions.
  12. jbmid1

    jbmid1 Well-Known Member

    Feb 3, 2011
    Tucson, AZ
    Another angle I just remembered to view the unions from.
    We have a maritime law on the books called the Jones Act.
    It requires cargoes being carried on ships between US ports
    to be carried on US flagged vessels with American crews. And
    BTW, the US shipping industry is heavily unionized.

    So, when the oil spill broke out in the gulf, there were some very
    good high capacity oil skimming vessels that would've made themselves
    available. Problem was, they were foreign owned and therefore would've
    requied an exemption from the Jones act. Mr Obama was unwilling to
    do that, so it was several weeks before they had any effective oil
    skimming capability on site.
  13. 45Auto

    45Auto Well-Known Member

    Apr 9, 2008
    I think of unions as nothing more than a type of business organization; a corporation with working stockholders. Every business organization should make decisions in the best interest of it’s stockholders' (like Enron was supposed to do, but failed).

    Business organizations of every sort have been greedy at times. Some business organizations have even sold out this country to get rich quick. They buy politicians to get favorable tax laws passed, you name it they do it.

    I’m sorry if this offends some people, but to dislike one type of powerful business organization (like unions) but not other powerful business organization (like wall street finance firms) shows a lack of independent thinking.
  14. carver

    carver Moderator Supporting Member

    Like you, I was in support of the war in Iraq, but after 3 days, we declared a police action after ending the war. All I could see was Korea, and Nam all over again. I do not believe that we can win anything while fighting a police action, so bring our troups home! All we are doing is giving the Muslim world more amunition. Strengthen our borders, and stop the Muslims from entering our country by crossing our borders.
  15. carver

    carver Moderator Supporting Member

    Not sure what you mean here. You are right when you say there is no war on terror, terror is a tatic, not an enemy. As to the last time I was terrorized, that would be this morning when I turned on my TV, and saw once more, just how stupid the human race is. How incompetent our leaders are, and just how crazy some folks get over just any old thing! This just scares the ____ out of me! That would be the last time I was terrorized!
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The Constitutional & RKBA Forum American Rifleman, December Issue Dec 15, 2009