Defence accuracy

Discussion in 'Self Defense Tactics & Weapons' started by TranterUK, Feb 7, 2009.

  1. TranterUK

    TranterUK Guest

    I have been thinking, usually a short cut to being in trouble, loosing money, getting injured or all three.

    Can you draw your defensive handgun from its holster and place two rounds into a dinner plate size area at say 10 yds within say 5 seconds?

    For those that say no, lets go to 10 seconds, for the yes folks, how about cutting down to three seconds? Too easy? how about 15yds?

    This is the sort of straightforward drill I think most people will be able to do, and follow as they improve. One key is keeping the target dinner plate size, just decrease time and increase distance as you can or want to.

    Keep it simple, keep it real...
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 7, 2009
  2. graehaven

    graehaven Active Member

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    At 15 yards, aren't police, and maybe the judge/jury, going to raise their eyebrows wondering why I'd engage them at that distance? We are talking defensive shooting here. Unless you're backed into a corner of course.

    I think 10 yards might be the ultimate limit for most defensive shooting situations.

    Correct me if I'm wrong. Always trying to learn.
  3. Insulation Tim

    Insulation Tim Active Member

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    At age 62 and somewhat slower than when I was 20 :D, I can spot most people 15 yards and still not outrun them.

    Sounds like a good drill, unfortunately none of the ranges I use will allow it.
  4. TranterUK

    TranterUK Guest

    Well I cant my friend, should you be unfortunate enough to have to shoot for your life, I don't know at what distance it will be, or how many there will be shooting back. I can say the odds favour it being in low light, at short range and with little or no warning.

    The drill is only to practice drawing and firing two rounds with reasonable accuracy at an average distance. No more.

    I drew on some of my early training, having drawn and fired a reasonable group in good time I was told to come back when I could repeat the group, but in half the time.
  5. Vladimir

    Vladimir New Member

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    My range frowns on shooting from holster ("monkey see, monkey do" reasons). I will practice when I go to my dad's department's range because then we get a private range :D. I don't carry defensively. I know where I am going.
  6. delta13soultaker

    delta13soultaker New Member

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    Shooting at 15+ yards (25 yards) builds confidence, identifies bad habits, and forces you to use sights.

    True, a defensive shooting is more likely to be at just a few feet, not over thirty+ feet away. However, for training affect, long stand off distance shooting is valuable...if for nothing else, because to many people under extreme stress 5 feet may as well be 50 feet for them. In a fight, everything suddenly becomes very difficult.
  7. carver

    carver Moderator

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    I have been told that some of the schools, like Front Sight, require this of all students graduating. Draw, fire two shots CM (must be good hits), and within 3 seconds. I'm not there yet! But working on it. Fortunately, I shoot in my yard, and can practice all I want, when I want. Because of this I can, and do, set up two or three targets sometimes. Shooting at about 10 feet I draw and double tap each target, CM, and try to keep track of my time. Fast is good, but missing ain't! If anyone lives near me here in East TX they are welcome to come out and shoot some. No range fees.
  8. delta13soultaker

    delta13soultaker New Member

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    Yep, 3 good hits at 3 feet in 3 seconds. Some people outright disregard this standard, some people even mock it, but it is a worthy standard to measure by, in my opinion. Attempting this drill a few times will demonstrate exactly for you how men trained to hit at 7 yards can miss inside an elevator with an entire magazine, as the aiming techniques for 3 ft vs 10+ ft isn't interchangeable.

    Crawl/Walk/Run. Even if you can't get under the 3 second window, any improvement makes you better.

    I have known Soldiers who got the combat reload of an M16 from standard LBV pouches down to 1 second. That is 1 second old mag on the ground, new mag inside weapon, bolt forward and firing. And 1 second is very very fast. They set that unbelievable standard by modifying their technique to waste no motion and by methodically practicing.

    In the beginning, slow is smooth and smooth is fast. Then fast becomes fast.
  9. TranterUK

    TranterUK Guest

    Did that include cycling the action?

    Not sure about one second, but I was pretty quick at one time. Left hand to fresh mag, eject old as new comes up to weapon, not before, slam it home and rip that cocking piece back, one finger one side, wham. :) Firing hand never leaves the pistol grip.

    The older I get the better I was...
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 8, 2009
  10. delta13soultaker

    delta13soultaker New Member

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    No cycling necessary...remember the bolt locks to the rear on the last shot...as the the left hand slams in the mag it comes up and slaps the left side of the receiver (bolt-release) on the way to the forearm. (I always train Soldiers to slap the bolt release with the whole palm...not a finger tip or thumb...none of that granny stuff...the whole palm.) A reload swap from a mag not expended is even faster since no manipulation of the bolt release is required. (Reloading when you want as opposed to when you must.)
  11. TranterUK

    TranterUK Guest

    Delta, you surprise me,

    you were taught to change mags only after you run out? My instructors would have burst a blood vessel if we ran dry....One of ours :)

    Oh and when you must use the paddle, yes a sharp positive slap with the heel of the hand.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2009
  12. graehaven

    graehaven Active Member

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    3 weeks ago, I attended a local club that meets weekly, open to anyone for a few dollars, that puts on 2 tactical situations.

    the first part of the first one, was to draw and fire 2 shots in vital area in under 3 seconds, at a target facing you, but it was about 10 feet away, then you moved down the line to immediately engage 4 additional targets, each getting 2 vital hits, then reload, move down the line to engage 3 more. I was able to do the first one without a problem, and then moved on to the others. After the initial target, the rest are engage from "behind cover," so, I took those a little slower.

    All in all a good scenario. A friend of mine and I are going to try to get there every other week. :D

    The range I'm a member at would NEVER allow this type of shoot. Much more strict there. :D
  13. delta13soultaker

    delta13soultaker New Member

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    Tranter....No I wasn't taught to reload on empty...that's like fueling your vehicle on empty:D Please read what I wrote again, noting the last line. My whole point was needing no cycling etc though. :)

    Yep, hard slap of the palm against the bolt release. A hard slap on the butt of the stock will work too.
  14. delta13soultaker

    delta13soultaker New Member

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    Sounds fun. I'd keep going too. :)
  15. TranterUK

    TranterUK Guest

    Quite right Delta, I must read entries more carefully.
  16. vytoland

    vytoland New Member

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    tran.......this a good drill and is what i practice at the outdoor range

    this is what you have got to practice until you can do it blind folded and half a sleep..............one day you may need to do just that:eek:
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