Defending yourself after the collapse of society

Discussion in 'Self Defense Tactics & Weapons' started by Martwizz, Jan 1, 2012.

  1. carver

    carver Moderator Supporting Member

    Just curious here, is that 24" overall, or the length of the barrels? The short barrels of a shotgun will serve you well in close quarter combat. It is easier to get around corners without exposing any more of your self than necessary. It is extremely efficientat close ranges. My problem with the .22 is that you have to make several good solid hits on a target to get a stoppage. I would opt for the larger caliber rifle with the scope. Gives you the ability to reach out and touch some one, and it only takes one well placed shot. The .22 is lighter, and eaiser to carry, and because of the weight of the ammo you can carry a lot more of it, but it lacks stopping power. Remember this one thing, if you survive long enough, you will aquire other weapons from time to time. Maybe much better weapons than the ones you started with.
  2. Martwizz

    Martwizz New Member

    Jan 1, 2012
    The law defines this as a smooth-bored gun with barrels of not less than 24”. If the gun is a semi-automatic or pump-action, the magazine must be restricted to hold no more than two shells, with a third in the chamber.

  3. carver

    carver Moderator Supporting Member

    Martwizz, are we helping you out any?
  4. Martwizz

    Martwizz New Member

    Jan 1, 2012
    Yeah, its really good information! Its quite alot to get my head around, because ive never been a gun person.

    Most of the challenge for me is going to be getting the lisence itself, because it requires i have a security box to store them in etc, and i live in london. As i said, shotguns are easier than other firearms.

    Im just trying to get an outside perspective as to what types of firearm are going to be best to have in this situation. I dont think its right for me to ask these sorts of questions in a gun shop, when i will be buying for sport shooting. And i cant tell the police i want a lisence 'just incase'. Apparently self defense with firearms is illegal here or something obsurd.

    Im pretty sure that a standard size double barrel shotgun is going to be the essential item as i can always saw the barrell off, and the simple mechanism seems more reliable. The ammunition will be readily available also, and it has plenty of stopping power. To be honest, simply having one discourages trouble in such an environment.

    As far as collecting as i go, i dont think guns are going to be as readily available as you expect. Any groups that have firearms are likely to be either military, law enforcement or gangs, and they will just be claiming weapons off each other. Its not like i would find them in homes like you guys would.

    I did give thought to the lack of stopping power of the .22. I very much understand that it can kill, and as a light weapon it would be easily handled with little recoil. The ammunition would probably be the easiest for me to aquire. How combat effective could i expect it to be though? Would a shot to a limb or the torso at medium range cripple or seriously harm an enemy?

    These are very strange questions to be asking... i cant stress enough how much i am not buying guns to kill people with.... even though that is ultimately the intended purpose when SHTF. =/
  5. When that time comes... they will be animals, not people.

    Keep in mind the home invasion scene from "A Clockwork Orange"
  6. carver

    carver Moderator Supporting Member

  7. 308 at my gate

    308 at my gate New Member

    Dec 6, 2008
    Lost in SW USA.
    I myself would not have a .22 in a situation where law and order has broken down. I would have at least a 30-30 lever or something bigger as I suggested earlier. Remember now is the time to pick what you will want to use and to practice with.
  8. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

    Feb 3, 2007
    NW Florida
    Levers are legal, over there. Must be, 'cause they play cowboy. They all use cap-n-ball revolvers, 'cause they can't have cartridge pistols, but they use lever action rifles. I'd look for a Rossi 92 in 357. Can use both 357 and 38 special. With a 20 inch barrel it holds 10 rounds (11 if you have one in the chamber). Beats a 22 all to hell.
  9. Martwizz

    Martwizz New Member

    Jan 1, 2012
    Good shout, i hadn't thought of lever action rifles!
  10. whirley

    whirley Member

    Jan 27, 2008
    Shotguns legally can only have 2 shot capacity. True, but you're talking no law at all. Just take out the magazine plug and fill it up. Any size shot, whatever is cheapest. Number 8 knocks bad guys down as well as 00 buck when they're close. Just make sure you have lots. As one old soldier told me, Pile on the ammunition until you're knees buckle, then fill up odd places with grenades. A .22 hit below the belt buckle will change anyones mind. The main advantage of a double barrel shotgun over a pump is it's simplicity, especially for someone unaccostomed to firearms.
  11. cycloneman

    cycloneman Well-Known Member

    Dec 16, 2008
    well your not going to want to hear what i have to say

    leave the UK
  12. jstgsn

    jstgsn Well-Known Member

    Nov 1, 2009
    Milford, Delaware
    Just throwing in my two cents.
    I really really like a 20 guage youth pump shotgun from mossberg or remmington. Easily changed to hold 5 rounds. Comes with three chokes. I suggest modified if you are going to throw in some slugs. Ammo should be readily available and easy to reload. Great in tight spaces and does the job.
    This is for 1 yard to 40 yards (or more.)
    also read up on flashlights, medications, alarms, water, food, etc. Jack can send you in the right direction for all of this, as well as most on this forum.
    I only piped in as I really like my .20 ga. mossberg youth model shotgun for home defense.
  13. jeffadaklin

    jeffadaklin New Member

    Oct 11, 2011
    I've been looking at some new bullpup-design shotguns. I don't have time to read all the posts and hope this isn't a repeat. I did see something aout barrel-length limits so this may not help, but here is a typical ad for the new KelTec version.

    Of course the advantage of the bullpup design is its length, under a full-length coat you could even carry it if allowed, with a single-point sling. But with the ammo capacity and ease of mobility inside a home, it might be just the thing. Which is why I'm considering one. Best of luck, and let's pray none of us ever need these weapons .
  14. The Duke

    The Duke New Member

    Mar 11, 2006
    NW Louisiana
    Welcome aboard the forum, Martwizz...

    I hate beating a dead horse, but my vote goes for the double barrel...Me? Id go with a 12 ga and if your stuck with 24+ inch barrel its considerably shorter than a pump...A 20g is a second choice...It will throw less shot than a 12 but has milder recoil and may be better for a novice...A good pump gun will give you an extra shot which is good to have, but a bit slower to reload unless you practice a lot....If you can get a quality double with automatic ejectors that will eject the spent shell(s) all the better...Fire one barrel, break it open and it ejects the spent shell while leaving the unfired round in the chamber...Side by side or over-under either is a good choice....PLUS with a double gun, if something goes wrong with one barrels mechanism or you get a misfire, you still have the other ready to go.

    A high cap .22, preferably semi auto and a good number of extra magazines is in my SHTF kit...High quality something like the Smith&Wesson AR-22...Good platform to add a small scope or red dot sight...

    I might avoid the surplus military rifles unless in excellent condition...some may be a litte war-weary while others are perfectly good....Think Id go with a good quality hunting rifle like a Remington 700 or FN...get one with iron sights and add a scope if you desire...Caliber? If your not a gun guy, Id go with a .233R.... .308 is better but has a stout recoil and major boom, making it a little more difficult for a non-shooter to get acquainted with...Id try to stay with a current military caliber if not forbidden for civilians, as ammo may be easier to re-supply...

    One thing you didnt mention is the availability of ammunition...Im sure pistol caliber ammo is hard if not impossible to find there...Get a rifle and shotgun in a caliber and gauge that ammunition is readily available to you...Stockpile as much as you can without attracting unwanted attention by the coppers..:)

    Somewhere I read at one time or another that the Brit cowboy shooters can have cap and ball pistols, but they must be kept at the range...If you can possess at home, a brace of these black powder pistols are a still a formadable handgun when you cant get anything better.

    Finally get a good strong gun safe...I suspect they already have a mandatory safe law in GB.....And resist letting your neighbors and friends know what you have...Its hard not to show off your hardware, but the fewer people know about your guns the better...Also dont forget a good quality flashlight, one is ok, two or more is better.....but thats a topic for another day...:)
  15. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

    Feb 3, 2007
    NW Florida
    Couple of thought, here, Duke.

    Yes, over/unders usually come with automatic ejectors. I don't think in terms of O/U, since I ain't got none. Side-by-sides is what comes to mind when I hear "double barrel". There are very few SxS with auto ejectors.

    If you are going for the "twice barrel" so in case one breaks you still have a functioning gun (which ain't a bad idea), make sure the gun has double triggers. Many doubles, both SxS and O/U are single trigger, and rely on the recoil of the first shot to set the trigger for the next one. When it's broke, it's all broke.

    It's true that military surplus might be worn, but they are still a better choice than civilian guns.

    A civilian hunting rifle is designed to shoot three, maybe four shots in an outing. You don't go "hunting" and shoot 3 or 4 hundred rounds. Military rifle, though, is designed to shoot hundreds, if not thousands, of rounds. In battle, it's gonna last longer.

    Think of it like a car. If you're going off road in the back woods, you'd want a Jeep. Running down the beach, you'd want a dune buggy. Driving down the residential street, your sedan or station wagon. Now, both the 4x4 and the dune buggy can be driven to work and the store. They won't be as comfortable. You can't carry as many people or as much stuff, but they will work. You station wagon probably won't climb rocks too well, though. Your sedan will probably get stuck in the beach sand. That's not saying your wagon or sedan aren't good cars. They are just not made for what you are trying to do.

    Lastly, I don't agree with that "20 gauge has less recoil" thing. 20 gauge guns are smaller and lighter. I think the lightness of the gun counteracts the lighter recoil of the shell. It's like - I have a 6" Python. Fairly large heavy gun. 38s out of it have very little recoil. I also have a 2" aluminum frame J frame Smith. 38s out of it have MUCH more recoil. I know many people that enjoy shooting the Python with 38s, but are afraid of that little Smith.

    With a 12 gauge gun, you can get lighter kicking ammo, if you're worried about it. They don't make "lighter recoiling" loads for 20s.
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2012
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