We have a friendly discussion happening on another forum and I was hoping there might be some experts here who could clear up a question for us.
This is a photo from a crime scene in which a shot was fired through a pane of glass and hit this piece of furniture. Some on the forum say the damage was done by something like an AR-15, while others say it was done by a shotgun, possibly with a breaching round due to the presence of the gray powder.
Does anyone have any opinions on which, if either, is most likely?
Well, it's certainly a challenge and mostly a crapshoot from one flat photo. But, that being said I'll hazard my 2 cents. It sure looks like a shotgun.
My reasoning;
A BIG hole. .223 makes, well, .223 inch holes. The surrounding small impacts...sure looks like shotgun splatter.
Shoot enough and you'll see everything. It's hard to imagine a .223 round going through a window and causing that. Easy to see it as a shotgun.
I have to go along with the "shotgun crowd". The large hole appears to be about 1 1/4 inches by about 1/2 inch, even if a .223 bullet keyholed, it would not produce a hole that large.
Odd looking. The round(s) came from the top left at a sharp angle ( down to right-close ). Unless there was some kind of attached protrusion where the larger hole is, I'll add the possibility that it's neither one. Even after blowing it up, it's difficult to day, IMO.
If I were there, I'd have a difficult time trying to understand why the 'tear drop' shaped holes were so different than the others. The smaller 'knife looking' scratches are from an different angle.
It looks to me like they were fired from a larger caliber than what looks to be Shot??
Donno. Maybe more than one firearm?
Crime scene? Nothing in the board, or walls, nowhere?
I'm also going with a shotgun. Even an AR that had it's bullet knocked off it's axis from the first object it penetrated, the "keyholing" would not look like it does in the pic. So yeah, another vote for shotgun.
Looks almost like the .410 self defense round that has the wafers and shot in them
Mike
After looking at it some more it almost looks like the shot was from the inside not the outside.
I have seen this gray out the exit side of a 2X4 when shot thru.
I would like to see a picture of the other side.
Its hard to understand how there could be powder stains on the furniture if the round passed though the glass first. It also looks like the direction of travel taken by the bullet(s) was from left to right in the first photo, but it looks like they would have had to travel from right to left if they came though the glass first.
Edit: How did glass end up in the pot outside the window in the second photo?
I believe the first picture was turned at an angle before posting. Copy it, and swing it around a little. You'll see what I'm getting at. Nice catch on the glass outside the window! I'm thinking that all the larger fragments of glass should be on the inside as well.
After a second look, the trim on the cabinet is in the right location, to the left of shot hole.
I'll vote on shotgun too, but for a different reason. I believe this was a load of shot, probably high brass #7 shot, 20 gauge, or 12 gauge. Shot fired just outside window, went thru the glass, and struck the magazine rack. At such a close range the shot did not have time to open up all the way, and most of it was retained in the shot cup. What got out of the cup made the smaller holes. The shot cup, with most of the shot still in it, made the large hole.
If it was a shotgun round, you would have found the wad. Probably inside the building, it would have followed the shot through the window. I have seen wads hit clays
Again, is this a crime scene? Why hasn't anybody involved taken any 'lead' from the furniture/walls/etc. to make a quick determination on what weapon was used. Basic/easy.
I work at a School I do building maintenance all window have to be tempered so they will spiderweb a ar 15 or just 223 would shatter the glass but it would not send it all over i have seen it shatter before it just falls to the ground yes some would fly but not that much there is glass on the table and a good 10 feet or sped of glass that was done by a shot gun on angle a 223 would not brake up just by hitting glass
I'm curious as well. It's why I came here. The discussion I was involved in on the other site was a lot of uninformed speculation by folks who weren't necessarily into firearms.
The vid looks to be produced by either the defense, or someone interested in the shooters defense. Gotta agree, the powder probably shouldn't be on the magazine rack if the shooter used a conventional round.
If the OP is still around..what would motivate the police, in your opinion, to stage this?
Sorry it took so long to get back. Seems the consensus is shotgun then? I'm glad I could get some informed opinions on the matter. Much appreciated. I really don't have any info on whether a wad was found at the scene, but officially that damage was caused by an AR-15.
Also, this was found at the scene, along with lots of AR-15 rounds. Anyone able to say anything about the shell?
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