Dimes for a 12 ga shotgun load?

Discussion in 'Large-Bore/Small-Bore Rifle/Shotgun' started by warpig, Feb 24, 2003.

  1. warpig

    warpig Guest

    NeoDebo
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    (7/21/01 8:16:59 pm)
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    Many times over the years I have heard of folks using dimes in their 12 ga shotgun shells.

    I have been wanting to experiment with this for a long time, but I am a bit fearful.

    Looks to me like this would be a load that would open the pattern FAST and do big-time damage up close.

    Anyone have any thoughts along these lines?

    Bompa
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    (7/21/01 9:04:58 pm)
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    Is it possible that it would open up your choke also???

    NeoDebo
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    (7/21/01 9:14:42 pm)
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    Re: Bompa

    Yes, it would likely damage a full choke.

    I had in mind a short range (less than 50 feet) defensive load that would open the pattern really fast and do major damage to a human without excessive penetration or carry when fired from a CYLINDER BORE or IMPROVED CLYINDER combat shotgun.

    kdubaz
    Moderator
    Posts: 330
    (7/21/01 9:22:23 pm)
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    We used to use dimes on 12 ga bbls to determine choke size - a dime wouldn't go thru a full choke, but would a modified.
    Keep below the ridgeline!

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1349
    (7/21/01 9:37:08 pm)
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    Well, first, you'd have to weigh a dime and see how many you'd need for a decent "ejecta."

    My guess is you'd need to get quite a few to add up to an ounce or so, perhaps too many for the hull.

    Next, the dime would NOT penetrate very much clothing I would think, if it hit flat, and even if hit edgeways, could deflect and cause a superficial wound only.

    Next, I think the spread would be erratic, just as much chance it would carry and hit as one projectile, a light one.

    Plus, use say 10 dimes, and you are already over $1.00 per. Could get rich fast, especially if you use 20 or more. (Maybe use a nickle and 5 pennies to cut costs? )

    I'll have to get out the Lyman and weigh a couple of dimes.

    I remember the hoopla over the flechette in a shotgun, and how IT would be the ultimate close range load, but it didn't work out that way, the flechettes did not penetrate, did NOT necessarily spread as promised even though DESIGNED for it, (dimes aren't).

    And when they hit, retained energy was too small to do much damage. Plus they did NOT hit like darts, but hit sideways, backwards, any way possible. All the hoopla was from the artillery rounds, like the 106mm RCL that used them, but they had a MASSIVE amount at higher velocity, and any type of buckshot, etc, in a similar "Beehive" round would have worked as well or better.

    Now far be it from me to discourage you, hell, that's one of the reasons I love the shotgun for defensive purposes, it just BEGS for experimentation.

    But I still think birdshot loads, or maybe a duplex bird/small buckshot load with spreaders would do what you want much better.

    Or NAILS...

    My passion is bucknball. Stuff like a 7/8s ounce slug over 3 00B, or 6 #1 B. You can keep the slug on a silhouette almost to 100, and still get some 15-40 yard dispersion for "area fire" purposes.

    Currrently I'm experimenting with .690 roundballs...


    The only way to find out is to load a few and report back, Debo.


    Eibar Pimp. "Pssst! 'Ay Meester..."

    Edited by: polishshooter at: 7/21/01 10:42:30 pm

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
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    (7/21/01 9:52:39 pm)
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    And Debo? Maybe we should move this to the "Shotgun" forum to keep the discussion going, several of us are into "Combat Shotguns" over there.

    I think after it gets some posts here and then starts dropping, I'll move it there if you don't mind.
    Eibar Pimp. "Pssst! 'Ay Meester..."

    NeoDebo
    V.I.P. Member
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    (7/21/01 10:51:27 pm)
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    Re: polish...

    I must be missing something. I do not have a "Shotguns" or "Combat Shotguns" forum showing anywhere.

    How do I get there?

    TallTLynn
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1457
    (7/21/01 11:03:16 pm)
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    NeoDebo he means the LARGE BORE/SMALL BORE RIFLE/SHOTGUN forum on this board - scroll down and you'll see it.

    Tac401
    Administrator
    Posts: 1730
    (7/21/01 11:32:09 pm)
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    ezSupporter
    Re: Dimes for a 12 ga shotgun load?
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    ND,

    I believe the ammount of dimes should be 10, from
    what I've been told the damage is big time!

    Also, I agree with PS on this, you might get more
    responses if we move this to the shotgun forum
    but if you would rather have it here that's fine too.
    The Firearms Forum Vietnam Memories Bulletin Board Contact Administrator

    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1574
    (7/21/01 11:35:36 pm)
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    ...always ringed my #7 1/2 High brass for a home defense load, devastating.............
    "am not" R2

    NeoDebo
    V.I.P. Member
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    (7/22/01 6:15:39 am)
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    Move it; I don't mind a'tall.

    Different name
    V.I.P. Member
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    (7/22/01 6:44:27 am)
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    ezSupporter
    Re: Dimes for a 12 ga shotgun load?
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    Just a minute, please.
    Does it cost a dime to do that?
    Or do ya flip for it?
    Awww go on and do it.
    Cheers!
    Charlie D
    ------------------------
    Brother can ya spare a dime?

    the real fredneck
    V.I.P. Member
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    (7/22/01 8:49:46 am)
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    several years ago I experimented with using pieces of solder cut to length of shot cup at very close ranges it worked ok not any better than regular shot, also used pieces of brass rod same results

    if you were going to use dimes the correct load would be 30 of them that way some Judas SOB would be properly paid

    NeoDebo
    V.I.P. Member
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    (7/22/01 9:27:56 am)
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    Re: fred...

    I think that 30 pre-65 dimes might be just the ticket for that Judas SOB.

    What I really want is a load that will open up FAST, penetrate clothing and flesh, but not penetrate walls at room to room ranges. I thought that, perhaps, dimes, being flat and having a terrible ballistic coefficient, might do the job.

    I doubt that there is such a critter. Perhaps rock salt, unrefined sugar (large crystals), peppercorns, dry shelled corn, etc., might be a consideration? The dry whole-kernal shelled corn is particularly intriguing.



    TallTLynn
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
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    (7/22/01 9:33:04 am)
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    Rock salt mixed with bacon rinds.

    the real fredneck
    V.I.P. Member
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    (7/22/01 9:48:42 am)
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    Debo
    you might want to try the solder or brass rods at very close ranges they would be effective but at any distance they hit sideways and have difficulty penetrating a stud wall with 1/2" drywall on each side

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1356
    (7/22/01 12:34:59 pm)
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    Which brings us back to small birdshot...will NOT penetrate stud walls if they have left the cup, and WILL stay inside the perp transferring all the energy, WILL cause massive trauma. and WILL not beg for an explanation in front of a jury on just WHY you wanted such an "exotic" load, you...you... KILLER you!

    Not only DOES it do the best job at close range, it looks to EVERY investigator and juror just the opposite...you used a SMALL GAME load because you were so "desperate," so must've had no other option but to shoot.

    Jody Hudson on the other board did some great testing, but used new hypervelocity hunting rounds and DID get some penetration of a wall, but NOT much retained energy on the few pellets that went through. The problem is at about 10 feet, the highvel loads HAVE NOT left the cup, so they hit like a fluid slug. I on the other hand have had experience with NO penetration, at 10-15 feet, with standard "high brass" rounds just like we've used for the past 40 years, with standard wads/shotcups. In fact, the cup was found on THIS side of the wall.

    With standard loads, the wad/cup starts to leave almost immediately, giving the standard 1"/yd spread you should expect from a cylinder bore.

    SOooo... the answer may be using NO shotcup!

    Why not try about 1 1/2 oz. load of #7 1/2 or #8s over a BPGS gas seal, with cardboard or felt wads to take up the extra space? This would be equivalent to an "old fashioned" heavy hunting load, and would begin to spread immediately. Add one of the "spreader" inserts, and it would open even faster.

    I use the gas seals alot, they work GREAT.


    Eibar Pimp. "Pssst! 'Ay Meester..."
  2. montana mike

    montana mike New Member

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    You guys are some really sick puppy's.One of you wants to pay 3 bucks for buck shot. one of you wants to feed the perp perp corn. and still others are trying to make a quick get-away slippery. God i love you guys.Mike
  3. ole iron sights

    ole iron sights New Member

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    youtube has a dime shooter...... quite a show
  4. old 33

    old 33 New Member

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    Solder....man thats cold...thanks

    I got a re-loader some time back and have yet to use it....but dad used to reload and he was messin around with things back in the day..and used rusty carpet tacks for fun...he said it may not hurt someone real bad but the thought of someone having to dig out tacks from their ass is a psycological effect to be reckoned with......

    :eek:
  5. jbmid1

    jbmid1 Well-Known Member

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    Reminds me of a story one of my guys told one day. Seems like his dad was one who walked a pretty close line to being a criminal. One time he got a little too close. He decided he hated someone enough to kill him. But he didn't want to get convicted of murder. He read into the law for the state he was in (Michigan) and found out that it was not a felony to assault a person with food items. So he loaded a shotshell with popcorn kernels and did the deed. He swears the guy would've been dead if he'd hit a cou[ple of inches one way or another. The jury read the statutes a little differently then the perp. He ended up doing a couple of years where he earned the nickname "Orville Redenbacker".
  6. gdmoody

    gdmoody Moderator Supporting Member

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    Talking about dragging up an old thread. . . . .

    But since were on the subject of dimes, I saw some kind of move the other day, I think it was about Jessie James. The movie had him shooting a deputy with a double barreled shotgun loaded with dimes!! Made a heck of a mess!!
  7. Crpdeth

    Crpdeth Active Member

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    Woo Hoo! Now that's an old one alright...

    What I can say for sure is that I've done it... Young, dumb and full of, well... Pocket change.

    Just FYI, it left a nasty bulge in the barrel, damn lucky that's all it did. sold the gun to a crazy hillbilly for 20 bucks who went on to shoot it like it was just fine.

    Crpdeth
  8. Big ugly

    Big ugly New Member

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    There was a feller in Ohio who lost his life shooting a dime loaded shell out of a full choke. Just make shure the barrel has a big enough choke to let them out eh. I remember my father talkn about it when I was a kid. Prolly around 84 or 85,
  9. WTC7SmokingGun

    WTC7SmokingGun Former Guest

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    If only he had been a fascist pig with a badge, then he would have gotten away with it. Heck, the other traitors would probably have promoted him. :mad:
  10. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    young guns 2.. Billy the kid (emilio estevez) shoots the jailer from the window of the jail with his own shotgun... "ever see what a buck 80 in dimes'll do to a 40 dollar steer boy"

    love that movie!
  11. CampingJosh

    CampingJosh Well-Known Member

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    Young Guns was sooooooooooo much better than the sequel. But that doesn't mean that 2 was a bad movie. :D
  12. TRAP55

    TRAP55 New Member

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  13. old 33

    old 33 New Member

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    One shotgunshell-$.23

    16 dimes-$1.60

    the stories that will come from someone on the uglyend of $1.60 in dimes....PRICELESS
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