Do manufacturers crimp all factory 223 ammo?

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by lastchancebaby, Nov 16, 2007.

  1. lastchancebaby

    lastchancebaby New Member

    Nov 16, 2007
    If not isn’t this a recipe for pressure spikes in AR15 auto loaders?:eek: Also, read interesting data on barrel twist.
    1:9 stabilizes 40-75 grains
    Best factory ammo:
    A. 68g Hornady OTM: Hornady 68g Match & Blackhills 68g Match
    B. 69g Sierra MK: Federal 69g Sierra, Blackhills 69g Sierra
    C. Trophy Bonded bullets: Federal TAC 62g TBBC, Fed TAC 55g TBBC, Fed Premier 55g TBBC
    I wonder if these are crimped?:D
  2. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

    Dec 20, 2003
    Hesperia, CA
    Most factory ammo has what Lee calls a foctory crimp. Its usually about four places around the mouth of the case where the case is pushed into the bullet hard.

    Describing it is hard but it is a series of semi-circular narrow lines about 1/32 of an inch down from the case mouth.

    You can duplicate it with the Lee Factory Crimp Die. The die is like a lathe collet and as the case enters the die the segments of the die close in around the case mouth and push the brass case hard into the bullet. It works well, by the way.


  3. Brings up a question from me, LD. Do the Mass producers make their own dies, or do they buy them from Lee or whomever? I think it would be neat to see an automated bullet makin' machine. :)
  4. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

    Dec 20, 2003
    Hesperia, CA
    You know Bruce, I have no idea but the reloading machines are no where like the ones we can buy. There would be no reason to use standard dies. I'd bet that they are machine manufacturer made and unique to the press. They are probably relatively quick change as well as dies on production machines must wear out and having the machine down for die replacement is lost money to them.

  5. I wonder if any of the mass producers give tours? I think it would be a hoot to see the plant in action.

    In 1963, My Dad worked for Fisher Body in Flint Mi. They had an Open House to celebrate something. So the whole Family got to go to the plant to check it out. We started @ the beginning of the Assembly Line & walked beside it while a Impala was being built. Very cool experience for an 8 yr old boy.

    I toured the Kelloggs cereal factory too as a kid. Afterwards we all got a 6 pack of the little boxes of cereal.

    Of course ammo manufacturing would be a bit faster & a smaller plant, But I would still be fascinated. Wonder if we would get a box of ammo, too? :)
  6. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

    Dec 20, 2003
    Hesperia, CA

    One friend whose dad worked at the So Cal GM Assembly plant in the 1950's got a tour too. His most vivid memory of the tour was watching the assembly workers beat parts onto the cars with rubber mallets. It appears a few of the parts didn't fit quite right.

    My friend's dad, who worked for years and years as an inspector at the end of the assembly line, told him about cars from the 1950's where they were required to count the bolts that held the seperate body to the chassis. Cars were let out the door with only about 60% of those bolts installed as sending those cars to the repair lot was not allowed unless the bolt count was too low.

    They don't make 'um like they use to, at least at the GM plants. And we can be thankful of that, I think, based on my friend's father's comments.

  7. Glad they don't make them like they used too ! I know in the seventies, there was a lot off cars coming off the line with massive amounts of Bondo, because the body dies were crap, at least in the Olds coming out of Lansing. Having the Jap. influence in the auto industry was not a bad thing! Now if they could get the Unions under control....:(
  8. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

    Dec 20, 2003
    Hesperia, CA

    Of my last three trucks the first was a Ranger with the big V-6. It saw the dealer one time for a recall on the power brake assist unit. Other than that I thought it to be the best vehicle I ever owned.

    The next was a Dodge Dakota R/T which was one of the worst vehicles I ever owned. It was poorly designed (R/T was suppose to be lowered but it was done poorly and impacted the load capacity so badly they had to offer a buy-back program). The V-8 engine was too big for the engine bay and the factory headers melted the suspension bushing three different times. Typical old Detroit vehicle. i've heard that the new Dodge Magnum is another problem vehicle from Dodge.

    My current truck is a Ford F-150 SuperCrew. It has 60,000 miles on it and has had zero problems and never been back to the dealer. It still has the original hoses and belts, alternator and water pump and original spark plugs. It is absolutely the best truck I have every had and it is truck number seven!

    Indeed the Japanese competition made most US cars better but the US manufacturers now have to build vehicles from parts made around the world, it seems.

    Yes, the union in America can be a problem. The one doing a number on Walmart is absolutely stupid! The auto industry unions have had to make concessions of late.

  9. bluesea112

    bluesea112 Active Member

    Nov 20, 2005
    West, TX
    I would love to take a tour of a bullet manufacturing plant as well. My father was the head of engineering for Daisy BB Gun for several years, and I was absolutely fascinated to learn how they make BB's. I was also fascinated to learn that most of the shotgun shell manufacturers buy their shot from Daisy.
    The first time my father gave me a tour of the Daisy plant, I had all of my childhood questions answered in a single day. I felt like a 30 year load had been lifted off my shoulders when I found out why there was a flat spot on BB's. When I was a kid, we thought they melted steel and dripped it into a big tub of water to make the bb's. We figured the flat spot on the BB came from the BB resting on the bottom of the tub before it had cooled completely. When my friends and I were 10 years old, we had plans to write a letter to Daisy to ask them to use deeper tubs of water so the BB could completely cool before landing on the bottom. For some reason we never wrote the letter.
    Come to find out, BB's are made from HUGE spools of steel wire. The wire is fed into a cutter and a small piece is cut off and dropped into a giant round press. The press is about 3 feet in diameter and it has a groove cut into it that spirals down to the center of the press.
    The top portion of the press rotates opposite of the bottom portion of the press, forcing the piece of wire to roll down that spiral groove to the center of the press. By the time that piece of wire reaches the center of the spiral, it has been rolled into a round BB. At the center of the spiral (center fo the press), there is a hole drilled for the BB to fall through and exit the press. The flat place on the BB is simply the very tip of the piece of wire. To make the different shot sizes, ie: #4, #2, BB, BBB, etc., they just use larger or smaller diameter wire and feed it into a press that has a spiral groove the size of that particular shot size.

    It was that first tour of the Daisy BB Gun plant that I had my moment of discovery. Entering the plant I thought I knew everything, and exiting the plant I realized I knew nothing.
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2007
Similar Threads
Forum Title Date
The Ammo & Reloading Forum Hornady 9th Ed. vs. Manufacturers Load Data (10mm) Dec 29, 2014
The Ammo & Reloading Forum why so much difference in shell holder # between manufacturers Jun 10, 2013
The Ammo & Reloading Forum Rifle Bullet Consistency and Manufacturers Dec 18, 2011
The Ammo & Reloading Forum Do any bullet manufacturers offer 2nd's besides Nosler? May 13, 2008
The Ammo & Reloading Forum Lee .30 Carbine Factory Crimp Die Jan 16, 2017