Does anyone else

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Appliancedude, Oct 4, 2012.

  1. Appliancedude

    Appliancedude Well-Known Member

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    Just a thought, I havn't seen the Libertarians come out all hell bent on ending the seat belt laws. And those are recent compared to drug laws. My body. I shouldn't have to wear it if I choose not to right? Its weird they care more about drugs than seat belts. I don't do drugs but I do drive a car. Hmm why do they care more about drugs than seat belts....... I wonder:rolleyes:
  2. Old Grump

    Old Grump New Member

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    Lets see, I am a life member of the Libertarian Party since George Bush Sr, stabbed us in the back and gave us Clinton back in 1993 but you finally googled Libertarians and now you know more about it than I do.

    I'm saying you support the constitution and the people who also support it or you support the old guard who are in politics to get in and stay in office, gather power and get rich at our expense. You made your choice. Patriot Act, TSA, loosened standards for wire tapping, jailed without charges or trial if somebody in power labels you a terrorist. Do you remember when this used to be a free country, we were never perfect but we had the freedom to say and do pretty much as we wanted without having to worry about lawsuits and getting fined because your wild flowers look like weeds to the neighbors.

    Congress passes laws making them mandatory for us but exempting themselves is not a good thing. Czars is not a good thing. The number of armed police officers for the Federal agencies has grown exponentially since 911 yet we have sections of our national parks closed to us because the government cannot corral the criminals who run free or control our borders but they will confiscate a belt buckle at the airport if it has a gun related insignia on it. Do you feel safer?

    Every single campaign has been run on the promise that the size of government will be cut back yet we add new departments and agencies everytime somebody in Congress gets an itch. Have they made life better for us, made our schools better our our railroads safer or helped our ship building industry prosper?

    Do you for one second think Romney is going to irritate his former colleagues by slashing their favorite programs or agencies or bust the civil servants union by putting a few hundred thousand of them out of work. News Flash, all that has to be paid for and the government does not have any revenue except what it can get from us. More people on welfare, fewer people working and the Federal work force growing so fast it makes growth industries look like amateurs.

    Electing the same old politicians will not get the job done but all you can see is 30 days from now. Well Obama is not the problem he is just the visible head of a huge boil on the public butt. He is the visible sign of our problem but it goes much deeper and you want to perpetuate that. Romney is not the cure, the cure is a clean sweep of Congress and we won't get it because you are locked into the 2 party system. You are comfortable with that sacred cow and refuse to do anything about it because you might have to take a chance and do something bold and innovative.
  3. Appliancedude

    Appliancedude Well-Known Member

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  4. Old Grump

    Old Grump New Member

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    So your a life member since 93 that makes you what 18. Closer to 70, took me awhile to get smart.

    I've listened to the Limbaugh of the Libertarian air waves (Niel Bortz) I've talked to true Libertarians and those that think they are and are really misguided liberals. Bortz is a character no two ways about it and I take him as serious as I do Limbaugh, entertainment value with a nugget of wisdom once in awhile.

    You don't know crap about me jack. And you don't know what your partys stances are either. I notice you didn't argue the points I made, just deflected off in another direction.I didn't deflect I just didn't bother, I can google any side of an argument I want from any party I want.

    Get the state newsletter and the national Libertarian newspaper and read them and you will see it is not a nice neat homogenous package but full of individualists. The over riding principle is we all believe in the constitution not just parts of it. You can get out there and quote the loony fringe of the party and your quotes would be correct but they are not representative of all of us.

    Yes I believe a Libertarian would stay true to his word unlike most politicians who only say what they must to get elected and then do whats in their interest not ours.

    That is why we are a minority party, people do not want to hear truth, they want sugar coated promises even though they know they wont get delivered.

    It's your choice, vote for an American or a politician and you made your choice. You want more of the same thing.
  5. Appliancedude

    Appliancedude Well-Known Member

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    Look Obama Junior, just because you keep repeating the same lie doesn't make it true.

    let me try and explain why I think your a fool.

    For 18 years you've been a Libertarian. What have you and your fellow Libertarians done to advance your movement. Answer- Not a damned thing.

    There are 100 US Senators. 51 Dem, 47 Rep, and 2 independents. The independents are Bernie Sanders a socialist from Vermont, and Joe Lieberman who was ousted from the Dem party for supporting McCane.

    There are 435 Congressman. 193 Dem, 242 Rep. NO independents.

    Where pray tell are your precious Libertarians? Not in our Federal government. Not since the 93rd congress which was before I was born, has there ever been more than 2 people in congress not belonging to the Dems or Reps.

    Your not a minority party because people don't want to hear the truth, your a minority party because you don't push your agenda. You sit back and bitch and moan because the R's and D's are ruining our country but don't do a damned thing about it yourself s. I ask again, where are your libertarians in Congress? Not one. You guys can't even get one guy elected to federal government. But your damned sure gonna win the presidency arn't ya. Yea, you can't get a senator or congressman elected, but hey if all you dumb ass republicans would just vote our way we could win. YEA RIGHT. Show me some federal election wins for the Libertarians and then we'll talk.

    I've stated before and I will state again. The movement has to start at the state level. I'm all for removing R's and D's from Congress. Maybe if we can get to 1/3 independents in Congress one will have a shot at Pres. Until then, I'll just continue to think your a damned fool for wasting your vote.
  6. BlackEagle

    BlackEagle Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Wow, guys;
    this sure has turned intense and strayed from the original post subject. Can we all step back, take about 30 deep breaths, read the count to a million thread for a while and let things cool off for a while?

    I think we're all agreed that the present White House occupant has to be evicted and he proved his lack of ability to lead especially well in this last debate. Hopefully the next two debates will persuade even more people to abandon him and vote for someone else, and deepen the conviction in those already persuaded that he needs to go.

    In the UK we have three strong parties UK wide; four in Scotland. In the last general election there was no overall winner, so a coalition government was formed between the two parties that were stronger--Tories and Liberal Democrats. As with all compromise situations, nobody is happy with the final result and I suspect Labour will get the government next time around.
    In Scotland Scottish National Party wiped the country; there are only a few seats in the Scottish Parliament that are not SNP now, so the First Minister considers that a mandate to do whatever he wants with the country...100% "renewable energy" by 2024, nothing nuclear in the country--weapons or electricity; "independance" for Scotland thus placing Scotland directly under the thumb of the European Union; homosexual marriage; the list could go on.

    That's my rant for today; hopefully there's something useful in it for the US. I will be voitng via absentee ballot this time around.

    Thanks for the time, guys.
  7. Appliancedude

    Appliancedude Well-Known Member

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    Ok so I stepped back took 30 breaths, and I still think he's a damned fool, and I"m sure he thinks I still want the status quo. Now what?:D
  8. Old Grump

    Old Grump New Member

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    About 150 maybe a little more Libertarians are holding elected office at local and state level. Gary Johnson was governor of New Mexico and Ed Thompson won 11% of the vote in Wisconsin when he ran. Polls showed he had considerably more supporters but like all the other chicken compromisers most of his fans chickened out at the polls and voted Republican because they figured he didn't have a chance to win.

    Look at states like New Hampshire and Massachusetts where the states are overwhelmingly liberal and Democrat, they have a lot of Libertarians in office but California, Arizona and Florida leads. Who woulda thunk it? Better to be a damn fool then a pile of fecal matter derived from poultry. :D That is what a compromiser is, a potential man who is afraid to stand up for what is right. He takes the easy way out by swimming with the current instead of across or against the current to get where he really should be.

    Signed: Damn Fool :patriotic:
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2012
  9. fuzebox40

    fuzebox40 Active Member

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    You can't always get what you want, (yes, Rolling Stones) but what we need is to get that traitor out of the White House.
  10. Appliancedude

    Appliancedude Well-Known Member

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    So let me get this straight. After all I'm just a pile of fecal matter derived from poultry, status quo loving R, who is not a LIFE member of the Libertarian party so can't possibly know what they stand for(even though I proved it with pages from their own site, but I digress). Since the party was formed in 1974 you guys have made it all the way to 150 elected people. WOW. That is so impressive:rolleyes:. Can you tell me why in 2003 there were over 600 and now its down to 150? Perhaps its because they are simply full of crap politicians the same as the R's and D's. Or is it because (by your admission) your party can't stand by their convictions? What happened to the 450 that are no longer in office? So the 3rd largest party has a measly 150 people in office. Sniff sniff I hope your proud, I sure would be:rolleyes:.

    Maybe instead of pushing a guy who has 0% chance of winning the white house, you should be trying to get one of them into congress. Show the country how great your party is, then get more elected. Your not gonna oust a party the way they're handling it. You can't just win the white house. You've got to mobilize and get congress seats. When you ever get even say 50 seats in congress, you might, might just have a snowballs chance in hell of winning. Right now, you don't even have that.

    signed
    just a pile of fecal matter derived from poultry, status quo loving R, who is not a LIFE member of the Libertarian party so can't possibly know what they stand for:banghead:
  11. Appliancedude

    Appliancedude Well-Known Member

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    By the way, these are your mighty Libertarians holding office in California. Not a single legislative seat among them. Wow, councilman, wow school board. Really making a difference out there arn't we?


    Look Grump. I like ya, and this has been a fun debate. But frankly I thought I knew a lot about Libertarians and I have realized that I don't. It would have been better the other way. I actually thought they held more seats. I've realized that the party is frankly pathetic. If these are the seats the Libertarians are so proud of and count, well I'm not impressed. 38 partisan seats. 116 non partisan. Non partisan doesn't count in my book.

    So really you guys have 38 seats. And reading through the entire list, I didn't see one greater than town mayor. Maybe I missed one, but still..

    Brian Holtz
    Purissima Hills Water District Board President, California
    Frank Manske
    Mount Diablo Healthcare District Board, California
    Jack Hickey
    Sequoia Healthcare District Board, California
    James Guadagni
    Liberty Elementary School Governing Board, California
    Jason Gonella
    Lake Los Angeles Town Council, California
    John Camera
    Van Nuys Neighborhood Council, California
    John Harrington
    San Gabriel City Council, California
    John Inks
    Mountain View City Council, California
    Jonathan D Hall
    Tehachapi Cummings Water District Board, California
    Kate O'Brien
    Rancho Simi Recreation and Park District Board, California
    Lawrence Samuels
    Seaside Project Area Committee Chairman, California
    Linda Strom
    Lakeside Community Planning District, California
    Marian Smithson
    West Covina Treasurer, California
    Norm Westwell
    Ocean View School District Board, California
    Phillip Leavitt
    Carlotta Community Services District Board, California
    Robert Dickson
    Timber Cove Fire Protection District Board, California
    Rodger Musso
    Black Oak Mine Unified School District Governing Board, Seat 2, California
    Timothy Healey
    Fair Oaks Water District Board, District 1, California
    Tom Tryon
    Calaveras County Board of Supervisors, District 4, California
    Vern Dahl
    Lucia Mar Unified School District Board, California

    The entire list
    http://www.lp.org/candidates/elected-officials

    My advise Grump is stop wasting your time debating me on why I should vote for less than a snowball, and start working on raising the total up from 38. Get some state senators and congressmen. 38 is not impressive to me at all. Its just pathetic
  12. Old Grump

    Old Grump New Member

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    Now you are catching on. Little baby steps by us hardcore types and slowly but slowly but real slowly the world will catch on. The prize accomplishment of the current White House resident has been to get more people to buy guns the accomplishment of the O team has been to show the weakness of the 2 party system. Now we need to get the hoi polloi out of the rut they are in.

    You and me need to sit around a fire on the beach some night drinking bad coffee, catching catfish and discussing anything but politics.
  13. Appliancedude

    Appliancedude Well-Known Member

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    A damned fool, and a pile of fecal matter derived from poultry sitting around a fire on a beach drinking bad coffee, catching catfish and discussing politics sounds like a great idea to me.

    That is until you try to toss my butt in the river:D
  14. Old Grump

    Old Grump New Member

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    Your butt is safe, minnows make the best catfish bait. :D
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