Don't know where to go from here...

Discussion in 'Disabled Hunters & Shooters Forum' started by GConn, Aug 3, 2011.

  1. GConn

    GConn Member

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    Forgive me for this if it is weak, lame, or otherwise in bad taste, however, I simply don't have the strength, Today, to type it all over again, so I'm going to supply a link to a post (which will have photos) that I just made in another forum (that I have been associated with for a longer period of time than I have been here @ TFF) - thanks in advance, and please accept any apologies that may be necessary in advance:

    http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/keltec/125763-disappointment-finish-work-job.html#post1447708
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2011
  2. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    sir its looks to me like a failed transfer or a minimal one but not enough to protect the metal

    this can happenn with wires not cleanly affixed or insufficient electrolysis material in the tank and way wrong

    this may have looked very nice when it came out but there was no thickness and so you have it as it is , explain all this to who ever you had this done by and if they dont fix it call your better buisness folks there and complain

    this is not good work , quite possibly accidental ( if they did not check thickness its dissappointing ) through bad connection that made it LOOK correctly coated but in fact was only a molecule or two
  3. GConn

    GConn Member

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    Thank you very much for this technical analysis...I would have never known any of this without your assistance.

    The gentleman who performed the work is reputable. The problem, which I only found-out about after I had sent my slide to him, is that he is now 82 years of age...and sickly. He shared this with me in email exchanges in the interim, as I contacted him a couple of times. He originally quoted "about three weeks" turn-around time for the work, and it ended-up being nearly two months (about seven weeks).

    Thank you again very much, and I will update this thread accordingly...

    Best,
    Glenn
  4. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    Sir i bit the bullet on a engraving job here recently , the gent after a lifetime of wonderful work , frankly did such a shoddy job i wanted to hit him with it , BUT , he too is now rather old ( mid 80's too) his sight is not there nor are the hands

    so i esxplained the work was not his usual quality and i saw in him he knew .. i dont think he's doing more work now as i heard someone who uses him regularly for knives is looking for a new engraver too

    i'd suggest the good neighbour approach , sir i love your work but this is not yours , did a friend help ? and take the course that way but not confrontational , he may fix it for you , he may admit he is getting past it , he may refund you and leave it there

    if the mans reputation has been good , leave him with it , but knowing he should stop , or be more careful

    i dont know of the person you speak but i know if i was in his situation i'd like to be told i'm getting past it gently too ..

    cheers to you and i wish you good luck in a difficult situation ..
  5. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    things that can cause these errors

    not cleaning the metal correctly or allowing it to be contaminated ( WD40 is terrible for this) by a oil type substance not allowing correct chemical deposit of the electrolytic metal ( Nickel in this case)

    not enough nickel or weak wire and current flow through the nickel

    weak current flow via wrong amperage setting or bad / ageing wires / connections

    wrong solution in the tank or a depleted solution ( many folks just top up the solutions and unwanted salts can accumulate and why a PH and salinity test SHOULD be done between each batch )

    the items to be coated are accidentally grounded against something in the tank ( un needed wire touching the connection and going to ground is common too )

    all these things can make that effect by limiting a good transfer of the metal to your gun ..

    hope this helps
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2011
  6. GConn

    GConn Member

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    Oh yes sir indeed, it helps immensely...and I will most certainly be taking your tact of a softer, easier approach - all things considered.

    The ONE "funny" thing here, in this exchange with you is, ironically, the gentleman's name is "John", however, he goes by "Jack" .

    By the way, you don't live/work in Texas, do you?? haha -

    Many thanks again sir - I will be sure to post back here accordingly...
  7. GConn

    GConn Member

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    *UPDATE* Re: Don't know where to go from here...

    The gentleman has contacted me and it was an absolute mistaken accident. He has been very ill (and is 82 years of age), and things got away from him there at his shop during that time (with a helper screwing-up).

    As he explained, he is only human, and I feel awful about this, in that people had known in advance "who" was doing this work for me, so the proverbial cat was already out of the bag - in advance.

    He is going to make it good (and actually offered to handle it anyway that I preferred) - I believe and Trust him. He's a good man.

    Thanks to all,
    Glenn
    PS - I will update with pics when all is done.
  8. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    Good folks who do good works have earned a boo boo or 2 , he acknoledged the issue and is fixing it and apologuised , sounds like a class act to me

    i wish you BOTH well for the future and lok forward to seeing the finished work
  9. GConn

    GConn Member

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    Well sir, here we go. Some good, some not good, and me still not sure how est t proceed, consider the gentleman's age and recent serious health problems, I'm afraid I've lost-out here on this deal...I trust you will offer a good, fair opinion/advice/suggestion or at least a strong comment - hah.

    Was a bit difficult picky only four out of about 25 shots taken...I don't know, perhaps I'm being TOO "picky" ... actually, the camera shows more than the naked eye...

    Attached Files:

  10. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    i'll work backwards on the pic's if that makes sense ( we are down under after all )


    the bottom pic of the magazine is a case of the deposited metal not taking to the base metal and just scratching off , as you can see its flaking now , not a good job at all and too many reason this can happen from grease to not enough current to make a binding coat so why is a guess, but its not good , at the moment the coating is less durable that a decent paint job ...

    the next pic up ( the foresight and muzzle) has me confused a bit , i'd guess its marks from tape or another covering of the foresight to stop the nickel coating from covering that but the surrounding marks , i honestly dont know , it may be buffing compound that has not been removed and stopping the metal being deposited evenly , but this is just a guess

    the next pic up , i again dont know , it looks like a drop mark ..


    top pic , again a guess only but this looks like floss contamination

    floss are impurities that float on the bubbles that are made , particles of nickel or other contaminants that are light and get caught when i item it allowed to have bubbles build up under it and why you must turn such pieces to ensure this does not happen


    and yes i'd have to agree i think you've lost this one , while the mag is the worst part i'd be suspect of the rest too ,

    i am very sorry this has happened as the gent has a international reputation , but we all get old , but we all must realise our own limits and i can see this has not happened

    the second from the bottom ( the foresight and muzzle) looks very "pitty " or pitted from sand or grit blasting and not a lot of metal deposited

    if you'd like PM me your town seeing your in Virginia , i have a mate who is in virginia beach who is famous for building custom show motorcycles , i know these aint guns , but they use platerrs often and he is as finicky a bloke as you'll ever meet ( actually tony is quite anal and why his customers love his work so much he moved to the USA ) i'll see if he know a quality place you can use ,

    again i am sorry and sad for you and the gent .. but he should know its not good work especially for a redo .. retiring in such a way is not good , far better to quit while his rep is good , looking a bit late for that

    i'm a long way away ( Australia) but tony is in virginia beach and a email is not a big effort if you wish ...
  11. Lapua Kid

    Lapua Kid New Member

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    I would contact Phil at www.Gunbluing.com . Phil is a master finisher .I have had him refinish barrels to complete guns . If he doesn't do the plating that you want generally he will get the metal preped and he knows where and who to send it to . He work is excellent . I would contact him he may stir you in the right direction. Sorry but that totally unexceptable .
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2011
  12. GConn

    GConn Member

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    Hello again sir,

    First-off, let me thank you for the offer to contact your mate in VA Beach - very kind indeed, however, we've decided to give it one more try here with the gentleman in Texas.

    After writing (email) to the gentleman - and being kind though Honest, here is what he wrote in return:

    Hello Glenn, You must be right about my failing eyesight, because I would
    never have sent that work back with those blemishes, had I seen them.

    Those dark spots are usually caused by air bubbles clinging to the slide
    and preventing plating in those areas. As for the dark underside, that
    is the usual situation, because hydrogen liberated by electrolysis collects
    under the slide. It is plated upright because only the exposed outer side
    is at risk for rusting.

    Plating was always considered as primarily a corrosion control measure, and
    the dark area under the slide is protected anyway. The intent of the plating
    is to protect against rust and corrosion, and I do the best I can to do
    that. It was never intended to produce flawless jewelry. I am completely
    wiling to try again, and again, until you are satisfied.
    best regards, Jack


    Followed by:

    Hello Glenn, fine, send it back and I'll strip it and replate it.
    Don't expect it to be plated in the firing pin area. I can't do
    that when it is upright. The Hydrogen collects and prevents plating,
    but if it is greased or oiled properly, that area is not prone to rust.


    Does this sound accurate-enough, to you sir?

    Thanks again and in advance,
    Glenn...
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2011
  13. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    Glenn, Jack here , no Sir involved i was a SGT, i worked for a living ...

    and the gent is 100% spot on but better word wise than myself ..

    yes if properly oiled and protected that will prevent corrosion , i've 1897 made rifles here that are in as good a condition as some that are 4 years old , no coating , just oiled and maintained

    i see a gent who realised his own failings and has offered to fix it until you are happy , that's class, and not enough of that attitude about today.

    he's picked his own fault and not happy himself ,

    i'd let him do what he stated , be tough, as is your right, but fair

    i reckon he'll get it done right for you , his words show that , he did not gripe , did not blame anything but himself

    i rotate my pieces but this has its own problems ( colour not matching at times , too thick a coat that must be polished down to stop jam's etc ) and the extra time involved , it can triple the time to do right as a minimum .. , and i often have to do redo's

    so most folks are right not to rotate the pieces as thats now how things are taught and so i wont argue especially against his reputation.. but its a bugger to get old eh , i'm realising that myself

    i wish you both the best of luck and i'm happy the gents rep is what i heard and that he'll fix your work

    Cheers Glenn
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