Don't underestimate the .410 gauge

Discussion in 'Large-Bore/Small-Bore Rifle/Shotgun' started by Logansdad, Jun 2, 2003.

  1. Logansdad

    Logansdad New Member

    May 31, 2003
    Alabama's Gulf Coast
    Most people in a gun store or shooting range talking about guns look down their collective noses at the .410. A major mistake in my book. A pump action loaded with slugs is more powerful than a .44 Magnum (let's look at the numbers...1/2 oz slug or 240 grains at 1800 to 1850 fps versus the .44 Magnum's 1150 to 1300 fps in the same grain weight payload from a 4 or 6 inch barrel). Not just that, but the .410 loses it's energy quicker (for those of you worried about overpenetration). And like most shotguns you can top it off if needed during a lull in the fighting. Oh and let's not forget that a grand jury or prosecutor isn't going to have the same initial reaction to the .410 that they will towards the .44 Magnum.
    If I'm wrong let me know...Any thoughts ?
  2. Feral_Goz

    Feral_Goz New Member

    Apr 11, 2003
    Got to agree with you Logansdad. The numbers all make sense.
    I think a lot of people underestimate what a .410 can do. My father has an old CBC single shot. I took it to the range one day to try out on clays.
    Got a few people hanging around making some sly comments. Didn't think much of them and got on with busting clays. After 25 clays only 2 got away unharmed. The people behind had become quieter the more I shot. In 25 shots they had changed their tune from "what a girl's gun" to what a great little gun.
    Didn't have the heart to tell them i was using 3" shells with no. 6 shot. But I suppose that when you only have one shot and a full choke, you have to take every advantage.


  3. warpig

    warpig Guest

    Welcome to TFF both of you. I don't think I have in the past:)

    I agree with the .410. Many South Dakota youngsters learned to shoot pheasants with one.
  4. Logansdad

    Logansdad New Member

    May 31, 2003
    Alabama's Gulf Coast
    this is one of my favorite posts...
  5. inplanotx

    inplanotx Active Member

    Jan 28, 2002
    I think you ought to go check your facts and figures. If you think the 410, which in reality is a 41 caliber is an inhouse protector load, think again. In what I have read, it is equivelent to a 357 Mag. Want to talk about penetration? Dry wall will not stop it. Now, if you talk about a birdshot load, then we can come to an agreement. Slugs, NO.
  6. Logansdad

    Logansdad New Member

    May 31, 2003
    Alabama's Gulf Coast
    I wouldn't use slugs myself...birdshot is fine for indoor ranges
  7. inplanotx

    inplanotx Active Member

    Jan 28, 2002
    Then I guess I do not understand your whole premise about slugs. Was this a thread tickler? You equate a 410 slug to a 44 Mag, incorrect assumption. What are you striving for? I cannot make heads or tails out of your posts. You seem to be asking pointless questions. What am I perceiveing wrong here? If you don't know the answers to questions, aimlessly pointing to wrong assumptions only makes matters worse. We would like to help you, but we need a starting point. Remember the equation

    E = 1/2( M)( V squared). You do the math.

    Now, lets talk realisitically.

    Attached Files:

  8. inplanotx

    inplanotx Active Member

    Jan 28, 2002
    Oh, by the way, I learned shotgun shooting with a Marlin bolt action 410 and taught myself how to shoot with it when in the service at the trap range.
  9. bigboom338

    bigboom338 New Member

    Mar 27, 2003
    South Dakota
    Feral_Goz, welcome to TFF hope you enjoy the site.
    I personally will stick to my handguns for in house use. I would much rather be stalking with a pistol than a long gun.
  10. Logansdad

    Logansdad New Member

    May 31, 2003
    Alabama's Gulf Coast
    I ask questions to get people to discuss firearms. I already have my own opinions. I wouldn't use slugs. Birdshot at home defense ranges is all I would feel I need. If you can't make heads or tails out of my posts the whole intent of this thread is not to underestimate the .410 gauge
  11. warpig

    warpig Guest

    makes sense to me LD

    I have always liked the 410

    It is a good beginner gun in the fact that they are not heavy and the recoil is minimal.

    For hunting birds with one as a beginner gun they are handicapped by the low pellet count. Super for rabbits and tree rats though. I will get my boys one to learn shotgunning with.
  12. Cliff

    Cliff New Member

    Nearly all 410 shotshells are loaded to the maximum of 3 drams which is the maximum powder load allowed on a trap range. Then from there most have the 1-1/8 oz shot. This equals out to a 12 gauge trap shotshell. In the same the full choke on the 410 is tighter than a full choke on a 12 gauge. Considering recoil the shotshell for the 20 gauge is 2/34 dram with only one ounce of shot. This will provide the least amount of recoil when being shot by a Remington 1100 in its respective gauge. Same when all are shot with the NEF, Winchester etc. As an instructor for our 4-H Shooting Sports we recommend each shooter to find a 12 gauge that will fit them. We start with 2-1/2 dram 1 oz shot, increase it to 2-/34 dram and 1-1/8 oz shot and within 4 weeks we have them shooting the full trap load with is the 3 drams powder and 1-1/8 oz of shot. This is what we use in sub-juniors, juniors and Seniors.

    But you are certainly correct in that it does equal out to a good shooting gun. The only difference is the 410 will have a much closer pattern than the 12 gauge does. But 1-1/8oz shot, whether it be #9's or 7-1/2's in each 410 and the 12 gauge is supposed to have the same amount (total lead pellets). It does take a better shot to shoot a 25/25 in trap or any of the other Shooting Sports. If you have access to butcher paper or roll paper from a newspaper, pattern several of the guns that you have access to. Mark a 40 inch circle. Shoot at 35yds. Then see if a bird can go thru that 40" circle ALIVE. Chances are they can not. Also shoot different brands of ammo if you can. This can lead you to even more accurate shooting which will make it certainly much more fun.
  13. Hunter7566

    Hunter7566 New Member

    Oct 6, 2003
    I'm surprised that all the errors about the 410 haven't been caught before now.
    First, the 410 slug weighs 1/5th of an ounce, which makes about 90grains. Hardly a 240gr slug. 90gr at around 1400-1500 would make it closer to a 357magnum load as was mentioned above.
    410 shotshells are loaded with 9/16ths ounce of shot for a 2.5" shell and 11/16ths ounces of shot in a 3" shell.
    410 full chokes are patterned at 30 yards vs. 40 yards for standard gauges.
    If 410 was a gauge it would be about a 72 guage using about a 100gr for a round ball of this diameter.
    45 lead balls are around 127-135gr.
    1 1/8-1 1/4 ox of shot is loaded in a 20 guage 3" magnum load.
    A 20 guage slug load would be closer to the 44 magnum bullet weight with greater velocity in the 1800-1900fps Premium factory loads like the Winchester Gold Partition. Standard loads do not travel that fast.
    Its still a nifty small game gun and you can carry twice as many shells as a 12guage but the 12 guage is about 2x more powerful with a 2.75" baby magnum load with 1 3/8ths ounce loads and has even more powerful loads. The range is more limited with hunting tree rats with the 410.
  14. warpig

    warpig Guest

    thanks and welcome hunter7566

    this one really caught my eye about 410 shells.
    I bet the only way to fit that much shot in is to leave out the wad.
  15. Cliff

    Cliff New Member

    THIS IS A LONG POST BUT I LOVE THIS SPORT. The wads that are used in the 410 are, almost what you say, almost non-existent in that there is very little cushion built into the wad. This is one reason, when reloading the other gauges you can modify the recoil by the wad that you use. When looking at wads from the side you will see the base which has a couple of layers of plastic interspersed with air bubbles. A comparison of those plastic packing that is around keyboards, monitors that the little kids, me included, like to 'pop'. Now the air cushion in the wad is 'quite' a bit smaller. Then there is depending on the wad again, some times shaped as an Oriental eye and has a total of 3 air pockets. If this is hard to picture, one can think back to any old buggy seat two opposing curves pinned at each end and then attached to the buggy seat right in the center and then to the wagon also in the center. Other wads use 'X's' to help cushion the shot. Now this cushion is not to reduce recoil, although that is an extra benefit of the wad, because it is to cushion the shot to keep it from being deformed after the power is ignited. Sorta like 'G's' on an astronaut. Above this cushion are the petals and called that because of the resemblance to the petals of a flower (I think that is correct but if not the durned things look like flower petals. The job of the petals is to hold the shot together going down the barrel and reducing the pressure put on the shot by the choke. When you really get into trap shooting/skeet shooting, people decide on which wad to use on how long the petal will stay around the shot before it peels off.

    For the 410, you can really do some downloading and also purchasing shotshells that don't have that magical '3 dram EQUIVALENT and the 1-1/8 oz of shot and not have the recoil with the lighter gun. Nearly all of the's 410 are lighter than the same model of the other gauges. More recoil to be felt. When dove hunting/trap shooting, I don't know of anyone in amateur ranks shooting 410 in trap, you have to go with the 3 dram x 1-1/8oz shot to be able to put the same amount of shot out to kill the bird. DON'T DO THIS. MAKE SURE BOTH OF THE GUNS ARE UNLOADED, GIVE THE GUNS TO SOMEONE ELSE AND LET THEM CHECK TO SEE IF THEY ARE UNLOADED and then look at the barrels of a full choked 12 ga and a full choked 410, never seen a 410 except in full choke, know they are out there but??, you are pushing the same amount of shot powered with the same amount of powder. Which one would you rather shoot as an adult? Which one would you want your youngster to shoot. You can load a 12 gauge with more powder and more shot and still not have the recoil of the 410.

    In our shooting sports I don't think that we have ever let a youngster use a 410. We have, instructors/assistants, have extra 12 ga guns that we let them use until the kid eventually buys a 12 or we will furnish a gun to take the youngster from the first day of looking, just looking at the birds coming out of the house, all the way thru state competition. Most of us have both trap grade and field grade guns. If we are reasonably sure that they are not going to do any more competition except in 4H, we have them shoot our field grade guns and they can they just jump feet first out of the pickup when you start hunting. Now these youngsters, hate to call them kids because 'youngsters' give them a message that they are in a serious type of sport. Discipline is a must. Unless some youngster is just out and out unsafe we will not ever, I repeat, not ever reprimand a shooter out on the line where the other shooters can hear it.

    I love the shooting sports with these 4H youngsters. We don't get paid to do this. In my group we have 3 men who drive about 45 miles one way to the range, 2 of these men, well, now myself making 3 adults don't have any youngsters of our own shooting. It is not a calling as a preacher is called on to do 'His' works but, ah crud, I don't know???

    I do urge you to get the 12 gauge. If not a 12ga at least a 20ga modified choke with longest barrel you can find. A person can always sell a 12 gauge anyday at any range where it will be a hunt and peck offers for the 410. Most of our youngsters, starting out use, 870's, 1100's and NEF in about the same percentage ownership. My second son used a NEF all the way to state and came in 2nd place overall and 1st place -2 person squad. These two boys went from the 8th grade thru the 11th and placed 1st - 3 time 2 person, 2 times as Juniors, 1 time sub Junior, then 1 time Seniors. Twice, both boys were 1st and 2nd overall, they managed to swap the 1st-2nd so it made them feel really great to be 1 then 2, 2 then 1.
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2003
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