Double Duty?

Discussion in 'The 1911 Forum' started by miggy500, Mar 12, 2006.

  1. miggy500

    miggy500 New Member

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    I'm looking for a 1911 .45 that would be suitible for both bullseye competition and personal protection. I realize these are two very different worlds. If I had to swap out parts to handle the different loads that would be fine. I guess I'm just hoping someone has a rig like this I can get ideas from. Unfortunatlly I cannot afford to buy seperate guns for each!! Thanks for any help folks!!
  2. Bruce FLinch

    Bruce FLinch New Member

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    I understand the Kimber is pretty accurate out of the box. You are only limited by you imagination & checkbook! I'm mostly limited by my checkbook :) My Para is pretty accurate, but I just invested in a bull barrel & a new trigger. The stock Para barrel's are a bit weak in the accuracy dept. For about $2500. you can get what you want in several brands :eek: Good Luck
  3. meandmy45s

    meandmy45s New Member

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    I have two Kimbers and two Wilson Combats, without a doubt you could use a Wilson to pull double duty. One of my kimber's is a gold combat that is quite a bit cheaper than my Wilsons that I would say could also pull double duty. I really depends on your budget. Les Baer has some really nice stuff priced between $1500-2000. If you get into the $2500 range that opens you up to almost anything you want Ed Brown, Wilson, Les Baer, Rock River Arms etc. I haven't shot the Rock River Arms, but I could recommend any of the others without reservation. My Wilson's guarantee 1" at 25yrds, which is better than I am free hand.

    I am looking at buying a para SX1640 which is a 40S&W, but they have similar guns that are advertised as competition guns that you could easily use for self defense and they are significantly cheaper.

    Good luck with whatever you decide to purchase.
  4. Tom

    Tom Member

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    One way to get the 1911 you really want is to make your own. I bought a Caspian slide and frame, pre cut for a fully ramped barrel and Bomar sights, and bought parts from Brownell’s to put it together. I did chicken out on the barrel and sent it to Novak’s where they put in a fully ramped Kart barrel. I have the gun I want, it is beautifully accurate, reliable for a full day of shooting. You would be surprised how much soot is produced by W231 by the end of the day.
  5. stash247

    stash247 New Member

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    Tom, and Miggy:
    An old friend of mine, Armand Swenson, said a gun ought to first run reliably, and then, shoot well. His guns did both, with the emphasis on reliability!
    The human heart is aproximately 4x5 inches; at pistol ranges, a Large target; the brain, in most cases, nearly 5x5, or, even larger!
    Suppose, then, one had a choice of a 25 yd, 1 1/2 " pistol, that worked when it wanted. or a 3" gun, that worked all the time.
    For my sorry a**, I would choose in a moment the more reliable pistol, out of concerns for tomorrow; but, today, that is not the only choice!
    I shoot an Officer's model Colt, and carry it daily, which is capable, on a regular basis, of sub 1 1/2 " groups at 25, with 100% reliability! (Sample is only 12,000 rds, at this point, so I am still learning!)
    Tight is not reliable, but not, necessarily, accurate, either.
    We are in the 'good old days', for 1911's, and Ed Brown, Bill Wilson, Kimber, and others, can deliver what you want at prices well below what you would believe! Check out our new "Disneyland",for shooters,and post, again!
  6. southernshooter

    southernshooter New Member

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    What STASH said about reliability is exactly right. Say your 1911 of choice is reliable and hold 12 rounds. Regardless of how it shoots if it's reliable chances are you can hit them with at least 1 round. but thats why you learn your gun every gun shoots different. Thats why you have to go to the range and practice and get the feel for it. You can't be one of those guys that carry's it just in case and never shoots it, because that is the guy it fails
  7. stash247

    stash247 New Member

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    Southernshooter, and all;
    I think So/Shooter missed my point, and Armand's.
    I will not tolerate a gun that 'don't run', 100%. Reliability is a non-negotiable issue!
    But, the same things that make a gun reliable, i.e., doing the same thing, the same way, every time, lend themselves to accuracy, as well!
    My little Colt shoots well, because of the consistency of lockup, bushing engagement, trigger pull, and grip register.
    If you do nothing but office work, you would hate this tiny gun, for the blood it would draw, on soft hands.
    Mine can scarcely hold a quarter, for the jukebox, and the sharp checkering of the forestrap, and mainspring housing, are necessary for the pistol to remain where I put it; not the deal for all, but, works for me!
    As to the issue of twelve rounds, available, "this is not your daddy's Oldsmobile!". Anybody that needs that much ammo to draw blood, needs much more practice, IMHO!
    My thought is that anything beyond three is prayer!
    Learn your weapon, live with it, use it daily, until what you see is what you hit; anything less is a joke, if you are serious about defensive performance.
  8. southernshooter

    southernshooter New Member

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    I got ya Stash. BTW I like the Olympic Matchmaster Reliable and accurate and it holds 7 rounds. I am with you on that if you can't hit it with at least half the ammo in your clip it deserves to get away
  9. Marlin T

    Marlin T Active Member

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    Meandmy45s

    Which Wilsons do you have, and which is better?
  10. blackhawkkid308

    blackhawkkid308 Member

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  11. stash247

    stash247 New Member

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    You guys are totally missing the point of the post; a single gun that hides like a ccp, and shoots, like a target gun!
    There is very little difference between the Gov't model, at 5", and the 'Defender', at 3", barrel lengths, where functional geometry is concerned; what makes one 'happy', does the same for the other!
    Start with the 'little' frame, and build a 'target gun', from that foundation; It does not make a hoot in hell who's frame, slide, etc it is, the measure of the pistol comes from the fitting!
    I'll allow, in bull's eye shooting, better results with a greater sight radius, but that is functional, not inherent,accuracy; i.e., the ability for a real person, to shoot a better score, but, if your eyes are young enough, a short gun can shoot just as well as a longer one!
    Was out in Vanderpoole, Tx, a few months ago,with a couple of friends, in a 400+ acre pasture, shooting, initially, at a 55 gal drum, about 200 yds out.
    There were several guns available, a couple of serious target pistols (5"), a Morphrodite, 41/2" double action, 1911, and my little 'Officer's Model', among them and we 'rung the bell',on a regular basis, without regard to barrel length, all of us,shooting the same ammo. Imagine that!
  12. Xracer

    Xracer *TFF Admin Staff Mediator*

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    Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet!
    Hi miggy500.....welcome to TFF! :)

    Depends on what you mean by "suitible" and "personal protection".

    If by "personal protection" you mean "to keep around the house in case somebody breaks in", then a full blown competition 1911 will do the job nicely. Just swap out the target recoil spring for a heavier one that will handle combat loads and you're there.

    If by "personal protection" you mean "concealed carry".......well, not too many people can carry (or conceal) a full-sized 1911 comfortably for long periods of time.

    There are smaller, lighter weight, 1911s that are more comfortable and concealable for ccw, and while they might be "suitable" for bullseye competition, they won't be really competitive.

    All I can suggest is that you determine which is more important to you, and then lean in that direction in your choice.
  13. cpt.bales

    cpt.bales Former Guest

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    I would go with a kimber . they are great guns all around .
  14. stash247

    stash247 New Member

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    X -racer, you're not listening!
    There is nothing more accurate, simply, due to barrel length!
    If the sights are aligned, the barrel, whether 3", 5", OR THIRTY INCHES, is on target, and that's where the bullet will hit!
    Sure enough, longer slides, and wider sight radiaii, will make it easier, but that was not the question!
    A compact Colt, or clone, well fitted, will shoot just as well as a full sized gun, in adequate hands; barrel length, slide length, and all the rest, be damned! The ONLY issue is where the bullet was headed, when it left the muzzle, as after that, physics takes control, with consistant rule.
    Regardless of the platform one begins with,Colt, Para, Caspian, Kimber, or anything else, if the fitting is done right, a 3" gun is well the equal of a 5" gun, at pistol ranges!
    I own compacts, military length, and even longer 1911 pistols, and they are the one pistol I turn to, should the sh*t get deep; all have the same grip angle, consequently, the same point of aim, again, at pistol ranges; as Jeff Cooper said, "a pistol is what a Marine uses to fight his way to a REAL weapon", in his mind, a rifle. I will not disagree.
    If you remember the famous words, from Tom Selleck, at the end, or, nearly so, of "Quigley, Down Under", he told the protagonist that it wasn't that he did not know how to use a revolver, rather, it was not his first choice!
    Jeff, Tom, and I share that choice.
    But, given the situation posed by this thread, if one builds his 'carry gun', in exactly the same fashion, as his "Match gun", the folks on the 'other end' will never know the difference!
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2006
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