Drilling (Need some information)

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by dlshooting, Sep 17, 2012.

  1. dlshooting

    dlshooting New Member

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    I have recently encountered a Drilling and the individual that owns it was looking for more information on it. Anything would be helpful i.e. maker and particular model? Here is the information I have found on the gun itself:

    On BBL rib: E Kirchhoff Dieringhausen RHLD (bblis 27")
    Underside of BBL: 16Ga, 16Ga, 7.8mm Nitro 15gr
    Serial number 119?

    I tried to take some good pictures. Any idea on maker and an average price point? It appears in very good overall condition.

    Thank you

    Mike

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  2. dlshooting

    dlshooting New Member

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    More pics

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  3. dlshooting

    dlshooting New Member

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    A few more pics

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  4. dlshooting

    dlshooting New Member

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    Last pic. Thanks again for any information.

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  5. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    Post #3, picture #1. Better, sharper, larger pictures of those stamps would help. The shape of the crowns over the letters, which letters there are, numbers inside circles, they all mean something.

    Try sprinkling some baby powder on there and then wipe it with your finger. That should clear the surface but all the stamps should stay filled with baby powder, giving nice white markings to examine.
  6. dlshooting

    dlshooting New Member

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    Closer pics

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  7. hrf

    hrf Well-Known Member

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  8. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    Both the crown over what looks like a IV, but what I think is a W, and the eagle next to it, look like East German proofs. That would make it post-war.
  9. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    The second picture in #6. Proofed for smokeless (Nitro), using 15 grams of powder and a Steel Jacketed Bullet (Stahl Mantel Geschoss)

    The bird over the Crown-over-U looks like the final black powder proof.

    The more I look, the confuseder I get.

    The height of the cross on the crowns looks East German, 1950 to 1992, Suhl proofhouse.

    Everything else appears to be 1891 to 1939.

    Look at #10 on this page. Crown over W - choked barrel.
    http://www.shotguns.se/html/germany_1890-1945.html

    Then the 6th one in the second table here. Also crown over W. Also choked barrel. The height of the cross.
    http://www.shotguns.se/html/east_germany.html

    I'm pretty sure it's German. :D :p
  10. hrf

    hrf Well-Known Member

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    Alpo, Dieringhausen is in the North Rhine area east of Cologne and would not have been in East Germany.

    (Note abbreviation RHLD for Rhineland after Dieringhausen on the rib)
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2012
  11. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    Today Dieringhausen is in Nordrhein Westf√£len, but I assume that when the gun was made it was in the Rheinland (Rhld.) In any case, as hrf says, it was never in East Germany, and the crown/W is the pre-WWII proofmark for a choked shotgun barrel.

    The Crown/U was the definitive proof for arms proved in the finished state. All the marks on the shotgun barrels are correct for 16 gauge. The rifle barrel is marked 7.8 and 57, indicating chambering for 8x57JR or JRS, probably the former, but there is no way to be sure, so it would be best to assume that it is a JR and uses a .318" bullet rather than the JRS bullet at .323".

    I doubt the gun was actually made in the Rhineland, it was probably made and proved in the Suhl area and the name on the rib is that of the retailer, not the manufacturer.

    It appears to be a very good, though not the best quality gun; value would likely run about $4000, but others might be able to provide a better figure.

    Jim
  12. dlshooting

    dlshooting New Member

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    hrf, Jim and Alpo, thank you very much for such detailed information. is there any way to determine the original German manufacturer or is that nearly impossible? Thanks again for any help.
  13. hrf

    hrf Well-Known Member

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    Manufacturer may be plural, as many of these were "guild" guns, where different craftsmen participated in the manufacture.

    A google search finds other E. Kirchhoff guns, but no details about him.

    Try the forum I posted http://www.germanguns.com/ They should be able to help.
  14. Max Donovan

    Max Donovan Member

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    Nice drilling. Be sure to lift the extractor before you replace the barrels in the action. The fronts of the extractor legs already have a little damage from someone who overlooked this. This is a "snap action" because the underlever snaps shut when you close the barrels. The earlier levers swung to the side and you had to pull them closed.
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