duplicating ammo

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by jbeam, Dec 11, 2011.

  1. jbeam

    jbeam New Member

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    Im trying to duplicate remington core lok 55gr 223 for my reloads. The best way ive read to do this is to shoot through a cronograph and find the fps of that ammo, and then find a reload recipe close to that. But i don't have a cronograph right now. If anyone knows the fps of that ammo it would be great. or if you know another way to duplicate it. thanks.
  2. 312shooter

    312shooter Active Member

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    Not to be a smart a** but why, as a reloader would you want to replicate a factory load? There is much more potential for you to take some published data, apply it to a few different loads and tune a load to your specific gun. Maybe the Reminton rounds are satisfactory to you, but I'll bet a little of your own homework and you'd be outperforming them in no time!
  3. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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  4. RandyP

    RandyP Member

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    The only way to know the actual FPS of any ammo, factory or your reload (duplicate) is to fire it through a chronograph using your specific firearm.

    That said, yes, if you want to create a reload with the same FPS as a factory round, you would work up a load that matches as closely as practical with your choice of powder.
  5. Bindernut

    Bindernut Well-Known Member

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    There is the rare occasion where a factory load just palin hits the sweet spot in a rifle. My first 788 in .22-250 paired up with the Winchester 55gr PSP factory load was unbeatable. I spent a lot of time trying to find another load that could match it but never did (in the 50-55gr bullet range that is).

    But yeah, normally if you can get close to a good performing factory load and do some further fine-tuning it will get better. I think that's probably what the OP is scheming.


    jbeam,
    I haven't done any extensive .223 reloading but I would work with either IMR3031 or Hodgdon BL-C2. I have had very good luck with both of those powders with the Winchester 55gr PSP bulk bullets.

    As for the Remington factory load, I don't know the velocity...and that will vary from rifle to rifle as well.
    You will have to run that load across a chrony through your rifle to determine your target velocity.
    A good reason to start checking the sale flyers for a cheap chronograph. You can pick up one of the basic models for under $100. You'll probably spend that $100 brewing up your load if you are flying blind with no chronograph anyways.
    (Besides, more toys is always good! :D)
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2011
  6. 312shooter

    312shooter Active Member

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    Assuming the final outcome here is accuracy, you could accomplish several ladder tests with several powders and primers for less than the cost of a chrony. Velocity is but one factor of accuracy, and you certainly cannot predict how tight your groups will turn out because your loads are traveling out of your gun at "X" FPS. Sorry to jack your thread, I just think you recieved a bit of hokey advice on how to start a load development.
  7. Bindernut

    Bindernut Well-Known Member

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    Well, at roughly $20 for a lb of powder, if you try 3 powders you're at $60. $80 of you try 4. Plus the cost of bullets, primers, etc and you're right at the price of an Alpha or F-1 chrony on sale.

    You are right 312, velocity isn't the only important factor. Velocity is an important part of hitting the "sweet spot" of a barrel though...velocity and time in barrel is what you're looking at when when you're doing a ladder test.
    The OP hasn't specified what he's wanting the load for. If hunting, given a few similar accuracy loads the one with the highest velocity would be the best choice. If just shooting targets, then it really doesn't matter...find the sweet spot and stick with that load.

    Doing ladder tests with a few different powders would be a good starting point. But I still think a chrony is a good investment too.
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2011
  8. reynolds357

    reynolds357 Former Guest

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    I would not want to duplicate a factory load, but if I were going to do it, the first thing I would do is pull the bullet and attempt to identify the powder they used. Many times they use powders available to reloaders, sometimes they use powders that are not available to reloaders.
  9. jbeam

    jbeam New Member

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    thanks for the advice everyone. I want to duplicate the remington round only because it shoots great out of my gun. and yes i will fine tune it. i just wanted to use it as a starting point. right now my reloads shoot great at 100 yards but not so great at 200 where is the remington rounds do shoot good at both distances. I read about duplicating ammo out of the the book ABC's of reloading. I found the fps of the ammo i use on remington's site, and got some powder that will put me around that, i will see how that works. thanks again.
  10. reynolds357

    reynolds357 Former Guest

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    You really should determine what powder Remington is using. In my feeble mind, there are about a million bullets that should be more accurate than a core lokt Remington.
  11. Bindernut

    Bindernut Well-Known Member

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    IDing the powder used in a factory load can be a pretty difficult task since most all of the large manufacturers don't use any of the powders that we as consumers can buy off the shelf.
    They use blended lots of their canister-grade powder to match a specific criteria. If a certain lot of the bulk powder that they're using doesn't pass the standards it will be blended with other lots to get to in spec.

    Having said that, you can sometimes get pretty darn close with some guesswork on the charge weight, powder type (extruded or spherical), and the velocity of a certain load that will get you close enough to narrow the choices down to a handful of consumer available powders though.

    If you write to Remington or Winchester, a request of "what powder do you use" won't get you a solid answer.
    The above info is what I got back from Winchester many years ago when I first started reloading and sought to duplicate the Winchester .22-250 55gr PSP factory load.
    I still attempted it anyway. Gave up after I found several other loads that were just as good or better. Never did find a duplicate for that load, but I did find some other very good loads during all the experimenting.
  12. Bindernut

    Bindernut Well-Known Member

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    Doing some ladder tests with that bullet and several different powders (or one powder and several different bullets) will help you brew up a consistent load.

    Read the sticky post in this forum on ladder tests and give that a try when you're searching for a load. It is a better method than just taking random stabs out of a reloading manual going on just some velocity figures printed on paper.
  13. Caneman

    Caneman Active Member

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    you may want to duplicate a factory load if that is your carry round and you want to practice with similar rounds... that is what i do for my Speer GDHPs as they are expensive and i dont want to practice with them, and load cheaper rounds for practice that go at the same fps
  14. Regular Joe

    Regular Joe New Member

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    .223 is very easy and forgiving. I just got back into it with a new AR, and the very first load I tried went MOA from a rifle that is advertised to shoot 1.5~2 MOA. The kick is that I use the CHEAPEST bulk bullet available from Midway, which is the Hornady 55 gr. PSP with the cannelure. I checked the load in 2 manuals and on reloader.com to confirm. 25.0 gr. of Varget with a standard primer (I use Win.) Powder density is just perfect, with no compression but no free space, with the bullet seated to the cannelure and no crimp.
    It's true that the factories usually can't tell you what powder they used, because they do buy literally tons at a time, and they are mixed to strike the balance between spec and price. The factories may well hit on a mix that serves them in several different calibers. Don't try that at home!
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2011
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