EPA bows to Ethanol lobby

Discussion in 'The Fire For Effect and Totally Politically Incorr' started by Blackhawk Dave, Oct 15, 2010.

  1. Blackhawk Dave

    Blackhawk Dave New Member

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    The EPA has announced preliminary approval (at the urging of the Ethanol lobby) of a 15% ethanol level. If your car was built prior to 2007, it won't run on this stuff, and it will kill a classic car. The rule is preliminary, but we've got to get out front on this one. Write and call, or we are totally (explative deleted).
  2. Marlin T

    Marlin T Active Member

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    I wonder is this is the reason that the price of corn skyrocketed?

    [​IMG]
  3. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

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    Hey! the south Pacific peso ( Australian Dollar ) aint looked this good in years

    I guess Obozo is good for something eh .....
  4. artabr

    artabr New Member

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    Tis better to be on the outside looking in than the inside looking out. ;)



    Art
  5. Marlin T

    Marlin T Active Member

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    NASCAR moving to ethanol fuel mix for '11

    By Official Release
    October 16, 2010
    02:28 PM EDT



    DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. -- NASCAR announced Saturday it will race with E15 fuel in its three national touring series in 2011. Sunoco Green E15 is a 15-percent ethanol blend using American-made ethanol from corn grown by American farmers.
    "NASCAR is committed to being an environmental leader, and the sport has taken significant steps over the years toward conservation by introducing measurable, best-in-class initiatives in recycling, alternative energy, and carbon mitigation," said Brian France, chairman and CEO of NASCAR.


    "The transition to Sunoco Green E15 takes our long-term sustainability strategy to the next level. Sunoco Green E15 is good for racing, good for the environment and good for America. While fueling the same close, door-to-door racing that thrills our fans, American ethanol creates jobs in the United States, helps foster energy independence, and continues the greening of our sport."
    "Since 2004, Sunoco has produced and delivered to NASCAR the world's best racing fuel flawlessly in a challenging, high-stakes environment," said Bob Owens, senior vice president of Sunoco. "We're proud to be part of NASCAR's dedication to conservation with Sunoco Green E15 -- the ultimate high-test ethanol fuel blend. In our six years as official fuel partner, Sunoco has changed with the times by helping NASCAR transition to unleaded fuel, and now we are eager to produce for the sport a high-performance ethanol blend."
    Sunoco Green E15 will be blended at Sunoco's fuel facility in Marcus Hook, Pa., which provides high-performance race fuel to NASCAR teams at no cost to them. The American-grown and American-made corn ethanol will come in part from Sunoco's new ethanol plant in Fulton, N.Y. The new fuel will be pumped directly from tankers at the track, rather than from on-site underground storage tanks.
    NASCAR team engine builders have been testing the Sunoco Green E15 for several months, and reports have been very positive. In fact, many have reported achieving more horsepower with Sunoco Green E15.
    "With Sunoco Green E15, we are leading by example, showing that this renewable fuel -- which reduces greenhouse gas emissions -- works in the most demanding racing environment in the world," said Dr. Mike Lynch, managing director for Green Innovation for NASCAR. "NASCAR and Sunoco look forward to highlighting the efforts of the whole racing community to transition to Sunoco Green E15 in time for the Daytona 500 -- from its manufacture all the way to the race track."
  6. CampingJosh

    CampingJosh Well-Known Member

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    Corn prices have gone up because the crops haven't been great. Much of the Midwest is experiencing especially dry conditions. http://www.drought.unl.edu/dm/DM_midwest.htm

    My county in particular (205,000 acres of farmland) has had 3 days of rain since mid-July (and two of them were this month, after most of the crops were already harvested).

    I don't think it was related to the ethanol thing.
  7. Marlin T

    Marlin T Active Member

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    Copy that, thanks for the info.

    I still don't think it is good to burn our food, just sayin.
  8. dcd_enterprises

    dcd_enterprises New Member

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    The price of corn has skyrocketed because the USDA has revised down crop estimates for this year. We simply aren't yielding the volume of corn they expected. Level demand, restricted supply, price goes up. 15% Ethanol? Good damn deal. We've been using it here in Iowa for 30 years with 0 ill effects. I don't know what you people expect. I HATE SUBSIDIZING FARMERS, being one, it's hard to compete when your neighbor is receiving Gov't money and you refuse to. I want farmers standing on their own. I think most of you'd agree with that. YOU ARE NEVER GOING TO HAVE FARMERS STANDING ON THEIR OWN WITH $4 CORN. Don't like it or believe me? You give it a try sometime. We can't not farm. When we find new markets for our commodities, Ethanol, and they are willing to pay more than others, everyone comes down on us because food's costing more. I don't know if you've noticed, but everything is costing more... Find someone else to blame but the farmer, OR GROW YOUR OWN DAMN FOOD.
  9. pinecone70

    pinecone70 New Member

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    Huh? I don't see any blaming the farmer here. I have seen a lot of 'using food as fuel is a bad idea' here over the past couple of years, which has less to do with the farmer than it does the government. The government thinks it is a great idea to make us think we're moving away from fossil fuels while potentially wrecking older cars and trucks in favor of making us buy newer, more efficient vehicles. I am pretty sure most people can't (or won't) run out and purchase a vehicle that is newer than 2007 if, in fact, it is true that older vehicles can't handle the high-ethanol fuels.
  10. dcd_enterprises

    dcd_enterprises New Member

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    Pinecone, I run E85 in an 88 Suburban. It can be done. I'm just tired of the arguments EVERY time the commodity markets go up. Sorry. Guess we're supposed to farm for Gov. subsidies, vote Dem, and take offense when people try to defeat farm -subsidies. Food for fuel. Anyone who has tried that argument as well, I'd like to feed them field corn once, cuz they think that's where their canned-cream corn comes from. Other than eating the beef that eats the corn, most Americans never see field corn. After they make ethanol out of it, they dry whats left, and make DDG (Dry Distillers Grain) Which is better feed than the corn was to begin with in terms of nutritional value, and sell it to livestock producers anyway. Large livestock producers buy it as wet feed before it is even dried, as long as it is going to be fed quickly. I haul out of ADM (you know that evil Co. that makes ethanol) everyday. They take raw corn, make corn germ, corn syrup, corn oil, dry sugar, ethanol, Then take whats left of the corn and make 60% Protein Corn Gluten Meal, 18% Protein Corn Gluten Feed Pellets, Wet feed, DDG, and ship it off... but apparently that os food for fuel.
  11. carver

    carver Moderator

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    What we must keep in mind here is that the corn used today for making ethanol is the same corn grown for human, and animal consumption. As fuel ethanol rises less corn is available for food. The corn we grow today has been bread to yield more food, and is less suitable for producing cellulosic ethanol. This simply means that the corn grown tomorrow for both food, and fuel will have to be genitically enginered. DNA fingerprints indicat the lack of a “silver-bullet” gene in corn for cellulosic ethanol. Instead, corn grown for quality cellulosic ethanol is controlled by many genes that need to be accumu-lated in a corn hybrid by selective breeding. Understand that such messing around with the genetics of corn, something that we don't know anything about today, may just end up producing a crop that will not be suitable for either food, or fuel.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2010
  12. pinecone70

    pinecone70 New Member

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    Just making an observation, I did not agree with what I mentioned above. I was raised in a farming community, I know city folk don't know where their food comes from, and I have seen people in corn fields stealing ears of corn when sweet corn was too expensive in the grocery stores. I am fully aware of how difficult it is to make a living farming now.
  13. dcd_enterprises

    dcd_enterprises New Member

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    Have you ever tried to eat field corn? We don't eat field corn! We eat sweet corn! Fiels corn IS used for livestock production, but if you go buy a can of corn, it isn't what were out harvesting right now.
    Did you read my last post in this thread? There is no waste, and not a great deal of loss via processing for corn by-products It's getting used for Ethanol etal. AND for livestock.
    They're doing a pretty darned good job of producing an abundance of ethanol out of corn that won't produce ethanol well.
    We're already producing a crop that is being used for both fuel and food, food via livestock, at the same time
  14. AL MOUNT

    AL MOUNT New Member

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    Sweet corn counts for only one percent of the corn produced in the United States. It is more vulnerable to pests than field corn, and generally yields less than the more hardy field corn.




    Sweet Corn
    •Sweet corn is mainly used for eating fresh off the cob, or canned or frozen corn. It gets its name because it is higher in natural sugars than other corns.

    Field Corn
    •Field corn, also called dent corn, serves mainly as feed for livestock. It is also used to make ethanol, and for other industrial uses.



    Because sweet corn is bred for its sweetness and tenderness, it is harvested when it is immature, and the kernels are full of sugar. Field corn is bred for its starch content since it is meant for animal feed; therefore it is harvested when the kernels are hard and largely dry, according to Extension.org.
  15. carver

    carver Moderator

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  16. Nighthawk

    Nighthawk New Member

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    Eaten a lot of field corn, all we had. Never grew small "sweet corn" waste of
    field space. Field corn very good if picked early. Same with any corn, if you're
    going use for roasting ears or putting up.
    Found some fairly good sweet corn at store recently, but still think field corn
    had more flavor.
  17. 300 H&H

    300 H&H Active Member

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    Just so every one knows...The corn we are talking about is specifically know and traded as No 2 yellow dent corn. The amount of production as a percentage of total production eaten by people is aproximately 2%. These are USDA figures.....and excludes corn fed to live stock, and then to people. that number is on the order of 50+%.

    Most of the corn produced in my area was already sold before the price rise on the futures markets. So most of the farmer grown crop will not recieve these speculator driven high prices. Anyone here can own corn in on the CBOT with a little paper work...

    I don't like these high prices, as they lead to arguments, and hurt the end user of my product, some thing I wish not to do......I am pissed at USDA for telling us all year we had a "record corn crop" once again. For the past 9 years they have over estimated this number.....Their credibility is at a new all time low.

    Ethanol won't harm your older car. My 72 T/A 455 H.O. will be getting sip of E15 as soon as I get the chance....

    Regards, Kirk
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2010
  18. Redhand

    Redhand Member

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    Does the Lik-er industry have any vested interest in the production of ethanol? Also where does the Lik-er industry get their corn? IMHO ethanol is going to eventually ruin gas combustable engines because I've heard it causes condensation in your fuel tank. I also believe that it is rusting out exhaust systems on gas engines. I have heard from a number of small engine mechanics that ethanol is ruining those engines. As far as NASCAR using an ethanol mix thats fine. The fuel in those vehicles are of such a high octane rating it will probably make very little difference, because the octane will burn off the moisture and the fuel won't stay in those vehicles long enough to matter anyway.:confused::eek::rolleyes:
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2010
  19. dcd_enterprises

    dcd_enterprises New Member

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  20. 300 H&H

    300 H&H Active Member

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    Ya ya hear all kinds of stuff redhand, mostly speculation, and rumor...but as a user of E10 since the late 70's in everthing from snowmobiles to lawnmowers to a 92 Ford pickup truck with 300K miles with the original fuel injectors. I have bulk fuel storage year around with not one single problem. You would have to prove to me the fuel is a problem...but retailers can be if they are mixing it with substandard gasoline, and this unfortunately is being done....Be carefull where you buy it.

    Regards, Kirk
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