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F-35 Joint Strike Fighter

Discussion in 'General Military Arms & History Forum' started by Guest, Mar 3, 2003.

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    Xracer
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1114
    (10/27/01 8:30:33 am)
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    Lockheed/Martin has won the contract for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter: www.nytimes.com/2001/10/2...7PLAN.html

    Supposedly this wunderkind will replace the F-16, A-10, F-14, F/A-18, and AV-8.

    As we say in Minn-eeeee-sota, "Ya, sure, you bet!" Anybody remember the F/B-111?

    The Navy has NEVER accepted an Air Force aircraft for carrier use. It's gone the other way around....in Vietnam, the Air Force used a whole bunch of Navy stuff....F4 Phantom, AD Skyraider, A4 Skyhawk, A3D Skywarrior (B-66).....but the Navy's always developed it's own carrier aircraft.

    Can you imagine ONE aircraft that can fulfill the roles of both the F-14 (air superiority/fleet defense) and the A-10 (low & slow, heavily-armored tankbuster)? I can't.

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2024
    (10/28/01 12:46:00 am)
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    Like the F/A-18...Jack of all trades, but master of absolutely NONE of them...just "acceptable" at best...

    About the only consolation is that there are no "bad guys" designing ANYTHING new on the horizon, so it prolly won't have to face any air-to-air threat in the foreseeable future...

    But I agree, compromises usually DON'T work out to be EXELLENT at anything, just "good."

    But then again, the F-15 was designed as a single seat Air Superiority only, but turned into a GREAT two seat strike aircraft, even if too expensive...the 16 turned out to be pretty good at air-to-air, even if designed to be a cheaper dump truck, and the F-14 recently has had added strike capability to make it more useful, but that airframe and the avionics are getting damn old...

    Question...Has Boeing designed ANY fighters that have been adopted since the PeaShooter?

    I was kinda cheering for them because of it....

    And you know, the AF has been trying to dump the A-10 since the 70s!!! Betcha a dollar the ARMY tries to take them over AGAIN...

    Grunts still prefer SLOW movers for close support, not Fast-movers....but then maybe they can "Thrust Vector" the V/STOL jets to slow them down or something...

    And speaking of that, I'm gonna LOVE seeing how the same basic A/C can be configured for conventional, AND V/STOL...
    We must make war as we must; not as we would like. - Field Marshal Kitchener, 1915

    Xracer
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1120
    (10/28/01 10:05:05 am)
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    Well, supposedly the F/A-18 E/F upgrade is a BIG improvement......and I think the Air Farce is keeping the F-22 for the Air Superiority role, but what's the Navy gonna use for "Fleet Defense"?

    I certainly agree about the A-10 (and the Navy's A-6)......you can't bomb while supersonic. As they say, "Fighter jocks make headlines.....bomber jocks make history!"

    Looks like the ghost of Robert McNamara is still around! Sounds like "silly season" in the military.

    Boeing had a fighter contender near the end of WWII.....the F8B-1. The program was cancelled when the war ended. Since then, nothing that I know of.

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2032
    (10/28/01 12:36:12 pm)
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    I can think of ONE (R)AF plane that made a decent shipborne Air Superiority fighter...the Spitfire/Seafire, even if too shortlegged, and no bombing capacity whatsoever...

    But even then, they used Corsairs pretty exclusively during the War, then dumped them into the sea right after when we didn't want them back, and they didn't want to pay for them, and went right back to the Seafire, go figure.

    (We could have used all those Corsairs in Korea, too, I hope the guys who made THAT decision were fired!)
    We must make war as we must; not as we would like. - Field Marshal Kitchener, 1915

    Xracer
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1121
    (10/28/01 5:54:27 pm)
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    I agree.......the Corsair was a helluva lot better carrier aircraft than the Seafire.

    The Marines did a lot of good support work early in Korea with their Corsairs in the AU-1 configuration....before they went to the F9Fs.

    BTW, Polish....here's a little trivia for you. John Glenn flew an F9F in Korea. He flew as wingman to what other famous person?

    17th FA Bn
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 45
    (10/28/01 6:51:03 pm)
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    The A-10 should belong to the Army if the Air Force won't provide them. Why does the Marine Corps get to have it's own "Air Force" if the Army doesn't?

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2043
    (10/28/01 11:59:10 pm)
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    Let me take a wild stab, I know he died flying jets...Richard Bong?

    About the only famous air Marine I remember that had a career after WWII...besides Boyington...
    We must make war as we must; not as we would like. - Field Marshal Kitchener, 1915

    the real fredneck
    Moderator
    Posts: 454
    (10/29/01 12:30:43 am)
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    wasn't it Ted Williams, the greatest baseball player that ever lived?

    17th FA Bn
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 46
    (10/29/01 7:31:20 am)
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    I don't know who the person John Glenn flew with in Korea was, but let me add a wrinkle. John Glenn flew with the Air Force for part of his tour in Korea, in a inter-service deal to get Marine pilots some experience with jets.

    Bong the highest scoring U.S. ace of all time was Army Air Corps and flew P-38s. He died as a test pilot, flying jets I belive.

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2045
    (10/29/01 11:17:53 am)
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    Crap you're right, hownHECK did I get Bong wrong? Anyway, I knew how he died...

    I did not know Glenn flew with the AF, BUT the F9F (Panther?) was Navy, wasn't it?...so I figured it had to be as a gyrene....I'm not all THAT good on Korea, I need to spend more time there...

    Now I'm confused, the F9F WAS the Panther wasn't it? What was the Banshee? I could go to Google but that's cheating....

    HHhmmmm....
    We must make war as we must; not as we would like. - Field Marshal Kitchener, 1915

    Xracer
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 1123
    (10/29/01 6:16:13 pm)
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    Fred got it right. John Glenn was Ted Williams' wingman. It was Ted's 2nd war. He also flew with the Marines in WWII.

    Fred, are you a Red Sox fan too? Forever doomed to "The Curse of the Babe?"

    Polish, the F9F-1 thru 5 was the Panther.....the swept-wing F9F-6 thru 8 was the Cougar. The McDonnell F2H was the Banshee.....it replaced the FH-1 Phantom.

    Edited by: Xracer at: 10/29/01 6:23:50 pm

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2051
    (10/29/01 8:23:13 pm)
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    I think I'd rather have "The Curse of the Babe," than "The Curse of the Goat."

    Either way, as much as I've quit following baseball since the strike, I hope they NEVER tear down either Fenway or Wrigley, though I've heard Fenway's days are numbered...

    I cheated after I posted last and DID go to google, and read about Ted...

    Pretty gutsy guy...didn't punch out after gettingg shot up and got the Panther back...liked the quote too, "he was wounded badly, so he was retired from combat flying back to baseball..."
    We must make war as we must; not as we would like. - Field Marshal Kitchener, 1915

    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2633
    (10/29/01 10:57:36 pm)
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    I remember the sucking sound heard when the USA went to the national air show and got a first hand look at the 29 Fulcrum.......yea one plane will do it all. We had more than one then and that one shocked the pants off us. This better be a good one.
    America, we are the symbol of Freedom and Liberty......

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2054
    (10/29/01 11:58:12 pm)
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    But the production Mig 29 never worked as planned, the 15 could still take it on hands down. The avionics were still second generation, never up to Western standards, as on all Soviet planes...
    We must make war as we must; not as we would like. - Field Marshal Kitchener, 1915

    rayra
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 142
    (10/30/01 5:28:10 am)
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    Xracer (and others)
    No 'wonderfighter' here - the F-35 is coming in multiple versions - the big hype is a high commonality of parts betweent the various types - Conventional Takeoff and Landing (CTOL); Short Takeoff and Vertical Landing (STOVL); Carrier-based (CV)

    Air Force and other nations go CTOL, Navy the CV version, Marines and Royal Navy the STOVL

    Saw a film clip of the STOVL engine on a test stand transitioning from 0 to -95degrees, totally weird.
    They've extended the whole 'vectored-thrust' idea and the whole ass end of the engine flexes like some kind of oversized drinking straw.

    Rich

    polishshooter
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2059
    (10/30/01 4:04:13 pm)
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    I love the fact that the USMC had to teach the Brits how to "Thrust-Vector" in their own Harriers...leave it to AMERICANS to figure it out.

    I can just picture some Marine Jock tooling along thinking..."I wonder what would happen if I pull this lever NOW..."

    Now they call it "VIFFing"- Vectoring in Forward Flight."

    That darn AV-8 with AIM9-Ls makes a HELLUVA air-to-air fighter, even if it is slow...NOTHING can outmaneuver it. As the Argentinian Mirages found out the hard way...
    We must make war as we must; not as we would like. - Field Marshal Kitchener, 1915

    LIKTOSHOOT
    Senior Chief Moderator Staff
    Posts: 2640
    (10/30/01 5:03:41 pm)
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    Mirages......hehehehehehehhehehehehhehehhehehehehhe
    America, we are the symbol of Freedom and Liberty......

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