First ccw weapon

Discussion in 'Self Defense Tactics & Weapons' started by boozeman, Aug 20, 2012.

  1. boozeman

    boozeman New Member

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    Hello,

    I am currently seeking a small firearm for ccw. As Il ive in Italy there are slim chances for the permit but I'd like some help in case I'm lucky. Hopefully the threats my family has been receiving might help the thing along. First problem is the caliber. 9mm parabellum is forbidden for civilian use so it's either 9x21, .40 S&W, .357 , .38 spl etc. we are also only allowed fmj or lead bullets (wadcutters should be ok, but no semi-wadcutters) to avoid actually hurting the person we're shooting at, but that's just how it is here. Ideally I'd like a small revolver or pistol, for pocket carry in a specialised holster. It is best the gun remains always fully concealed to avoid panicky people calling the cops if they see it.

    I was thinking of a J frame revolver from smith & wesson, to be fed FMJ ammo of some kind. I'd start off with regular power .38's to get lower recoil for ease of use, then maybe work up to +p after I have some experience with the gun.

    For home defence I'm going to get a shotgun soon in 12 gauge. I was looking at a Benelli Nova with a short 47cm barrel and possibly a magazine extender + flashlight. This should be easier to get as home posession is allowed.

    Thank you for your help,
    Boozeman
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2012
  2. gun runner

    gun runner Former Guest

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    Wow those are some strict laws ya got over there. Smith and wesson makes alot of small revolvers. also taurus. I never dealt with Taurus but I never had a problem with any revolver I ever shot. Going with a revolver is probaly the best choice in my opinion. Its like a revolver will never fail but a good quality pistol cleaned oiled and fed good quality ammunition. My first pistol was a Smith and Wesson model 5906 9mm semi auto and it jammed on the 3 shot when I brought it home. So I never bought another pistol again and i wont ever. I will stick with a revolver but its up to you. Good Luck
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2012
  3. Recon 173

    Recon 173 Member

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    For many years I carried a .357 magnum revolver loaded with .38 special ammo. The key to any good handgun is lots of practice and good shot placement. I learned and was trained to shoot 2 bullets to the chest and 1 bullet to the head. One thing I also learned that a 4 inch barrel is much more accurate and more easily controls recoil than a short 2 inch barrel. Another thing to consider is that the 2 inch barrel handguns in the S&W J frames only have 5 rounds in them. A Model 13 or a Model 65 revolver can also come in a 3 inch barrel and holds 6 rounds. These two models are really good guns and have been used by undercover police over here for years.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S&W_Model_13

    As for a shotgun, I learned to appreciate a good TACTICAL pump shot gun in 12 gauge. A tactical shotgun has a sidesaddle on it, a sling, rifled sights and an extended storage tube for ammo. There are all sorts of videos about tactical shotguns out there and on YouTube for you to watch and learn. I own a Remington 870 that I keep around the house ready for those "midnight social events." Another thing that you might want to consider is a 20 gauge tactical shotgun as an alternative to a bigger bore 12 gauge. Both will work for you. If there is a chance that another family member might need to use the shotgun, go with the 20 gauge. If you're sure that nobody else will use the shotgun then go with a good 12 gauge. For close range, across the room, think about using 00 buckshot. For longer distances consider using a slug round. A red dot sight on your shotgun is another thing to consider for high speed, accurate shooting.
  4. gun runner

    gun runner Former Guest

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    If your going to use a shotgun for home/self defense then go with a 12 or 10 gauge, regardless if its a tactical or regular shotgun. Buckshot is the best way to go with self defense
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2012
  5. CCHolderinMaine

    CCHolderinMaine Well-Known Member

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    .40 and .357 are allowed but a 9mm isn't?

    So, ummm, a .22 must be REALLY out of the question.......
  6. Airdale

    Airdale Member

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    boozeman,

    Welcome to the forum.

    On the pistol side (semi auto) take a look at the Bersa offerings. Just bought the wife a Bersa Storm .380 concealed carry and I couldn't be more pleased, especially considering we only paid $310 for it. Fit and finish are flawless. Take a peek. http://www.bersa.com/bersa-firearms/thunder-concealed-carry.html

    Seeing as you are stuck with FMJ ammo you might want a larger caliber. They offer their Bersa Thunder UC Pro series in 9mm, .40 and .45. The 9mm is out, the .40 will give you 10+1 capacity, the .45 7+1.
    You can get all the specs here. http://www.bersa.com/bersa-firearms/thunder-uc-pro-series.html.

    I don't consider any of these a "pocket pistol" but they are will all virtually disappear using an IWB (inside the waistband) holster. The Storm was undetectable using a belly band.

    Lots of other choices out there some smaller (lose capacity and accuracy)
    some more well known but few with the quality at the price the Bersa is offered for.

    Don't mean to sound like a Bersa sales rep. but I am really impressed with them.
    Wish I had found them sooner.

    Hope this helps.
  7. carver

    carver Moderator

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    Is .44 caliber in Lead Round Nose (LRN) acceptable? If so, take a look at the Charter Arms Bull Dog in .44 special!

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Aug 21, 2012
  8. WHSmithIV

    WHSmithIV Well-Known Member

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    I think that given the rules you have to follow you would probably be best off with a .380 semi auto or one using 9x18mm such as the Polish P64 Radom. There should be plenty of these pistols available around Europe and the ammo will certainly be available.

    In the .380 range you have a lot to choose from that fits the requirement for being easily and completely concealable including the Ruger LCP, various Walther PPK models (only buy a good used one from before they were licensed to S&W) and copies, the Bersa as mentioned above. Baretta also has a range of pistols that are very concealable like the Tomcat in .32 auto (which would keep you well inside the requirements) and they have the PX4 in a variety of calibers. Then you have some decent models from Glock and Sig Sauer as well.

    For a good read on what are thought to be really good concealed carry pistols you might like to read this article: http://www.chuckhawks.com/concealed_pistols.htm

    Good luck in getting the permit. They aren't easy to get in any European country.
  9. howlnmad

    howlnmad Well-Known Member

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    I like your choice of a wheel gun. The s-w j frame is an excellent choice, my wife carries one. I carry a wheel gun as well. I just don't want to have to worry about a semi auto stovepiping or jamming up.

    Oh and welcome to TFF.
  10. carver

    carver Moderator

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    Personally, I believe that big bullets make big holes!
  11. howlnmad

    howlnmad Well-Known Member

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    Gotta agree with you on that.

    Funny how they have to use FMJ or wadcutters so they don't hurt someone. They ever seen the hole a wadcutter makes? :rolleyes:
  12. WHSmithIV

    WHSmithIV Well-Known Member

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    Seems to me that any bullet of any caliber travelling at a the speed a bullet travels is going to make a hole and it's going to hurt...... I think their concept is to try to keep the bullet in the intended target so that it doesn't keep on going and hit an innocent behind that target.... I'd suspect then that 357 magnum and 44 magnum are also not allowed.
  13. boozeman

    boozeman New Member

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    Nope, only the "military" calibers are not allowed. .357, .44 magnum, etc. etc. are all allowed. in fact the most common is 9 x 21 IMI. Their concept is the less weapons around the better, unfortunately for honest people. until 2006 we had a "proportional defense law" that required you to use the same force to repel an attack. it meant you were convicted for using excessive force if you used a gun to repel a home invader with a knife. Now we have a law that assumes proportional force if you repel an attack from your home or place of work, as long as the other person is a threat, i.e. not unarmed and does not surrender. This is still not very good as Judges tend to interpret the law restrictively and favor the criminal. 'Tis very bad here!
  14. lilmule

    lilmule New Member

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    Different states here have different laws concerning that,In Tennesse we are permitted use of deadly force only in defense of a what we determine to be a life threatening situation,naturally should it occur may be judged by 12 of ones peers.
    Should the threat stop,or go away we cannot shoot them in the back,run after etc or even attempt to stop a crime unless life threatening as we are not police officers.
    And one persons life threatening situation may be different than someone elses,thus why we need to think a bit as may be judged for ones actions.
    Im disabled ,older,heart condition,130lbs,so to me a 300 lb man enraged beating on me is life threatening,but would not be able to explain why I shot the perp ten times and reloaded and did it again.There are possible reactions to our actions.
    Honestly believe better to be judged by 12 than carried by six,but one must also be prepared to pay if not in accordance with the law.
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2012
  15. jeffadaklin

    jeffadaklin New Member

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    WHSmith had a thought I had- they can't have 9mm but they can have 357s? Either really screwy rules or a mistaken option. For the OP I'd say a 380 auto or 38 special. Wadcutters in those calibers would be pretty tough.
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