Flobert Rifles...

Discussion in '.22-Rimfire Forum' started by Smokin Guns, Aug 31, 2003.

  1. Smokin Guns

    Smokin Guns New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2002
    Messages:
    4,462
    Location:
    "Gun Culture Members Clubhouse"...
    I picked up a Heavy (looks like a 18 inch) octagonal barrel one yesterday. I'm curious if anyone knows anything about them or where I can get more information on them.
  2. Smokin Guns

    Smokin Guns New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2002
    Messages:
    4,462
    Location:
    "Gun Culture Members Clubhouse"...
    It might be a 20 inch barrel. Here's the Pic...

    Attached Files:

  3. armedandsafe

    armedandsafe Guest

    The first two returns from Google show $1200 price tag, then this, from www.armscollectors.com/faq.htm/faq.htm :
    ______________________________

    "Flobert Rifles:
    During the period from the 1890s through about 1920 "Boy's rifles" were very popular items for youngsters. (Why could you give 10 year olds guns then and they wouldn't shoot anyone, while now guns are banned from anyone under 18 but kids are killing lots of folks?) Anyway, Belgium was a major source of inexpensive guns, and many thousands were imported, often sold by big mail order companies like Sears, Montgomery Wards, etc. The most common action used was a "Flobert" design, this is similar to what Americans often call a "rolling block" action. Most Floberts were .22 rimfire (sometimes short, or long, or long rifle). Sometimes other caliber's are seen, .25 or .32 rimfire, or even 9mm rimfire, but ammo is basically not available for any of these. Even in excellent condition there is little collector interest in Flobert rifles. If your gun has some family history, it is probably a nice souvenir, if not, it is good decoration, but not something that is very valuable. "

    then a couple of entries farther down, we find one for only $1600.00. :confused:

    Pops
  4. Smokin Guns

    Smokin Guns New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2002
    Messages:
    4,462
    Location:
    "Gun Culture Members Clubhouse"...
    Thanks for the link Pops...;) I put two .22lr through it today...one from the hip and one from the shoulder, it shot okay! It's rear site is a peep...Reckon it ought to be worth a million $'s...;)
  5. armedandsafe

    armedandsafe Guest

    This might interest you, too:
    From travel to wyoming
    _______________________________

    With development of the breechloader in process, the final step toward modern firearms was improvement of the cartridge material itself. The basic design was at hand, and it was just a matter of time until the cartridge's weak unit, the paper tube, was replaced with a material that was stronger and more durable. This evolution initially came through the percussion "cap" that was already in use - a small, brass cylinder holding the fulminate of mercury detonator. Flobert, a Frenchman, in 1849 put as small lead ball in the mouth of a cap - a "BB Cap" for Bulleted Breech Cap - thereby creating a self-contained round. Horace Smith and Daniel Wesson patented a .22 Short round in 1860 that was larger and therefore more effective than the BB Cap.


    Pops
  6. gamachinist

    gamachinist New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2003
    Messages:
    213
    Location:
    Locust Grove GA
    That looks like a Warnant action from the photo.The Warnant works like a Trap Door Springfield.Does the breech block swing up?

    I don't know who would pay that kind of money for a Warnant or Flobert but send them my way,I've got two that I'm not that fond of!:D

    Most of those have shot out barrels as they were made out of fairly soft metal.Look at the fired cases for bulges near the rim too as the extractor cut is pretty deep into the chamber.If the barrel is gone and you try to reline it,thin the extractor so the cut isn't so deep.(Personal experience talking!)

    Robert.:cool:
  7. Smokin Guns

    Smokin Guns New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2002
    Messages:
    4,462
    Location:
    "Gun Culture Members Clubhouse"...
    Yep Robert! It's got a strong spring in it (or whatever it's using to hold it against the cartridge)...It's marked S or LR, ...Reckon I oughta stay with the shorts?...The Bore is shiny with visible rifleing...:confused:
  8. armedandsafe

    armedandsafe Guest

    I had forgotten...

    how much fun it is to research stuff like this.
    ________________________________________

    Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 20:08:35 -0600
    From: "David A. Tomlinson" <nfadat@telusplanet.net>
    Subject: Daniel and Horace

    Horace Smith and Daniel Baird Wesson (Yes, THAT S&W!) formed a partnership in 1852 to manufacture the "rocket ball" Volcanic lever-action repeating pistol. The "rocket ball" was a conical lead bullet with a deep hollow base. The primer was put into that hole, then a feeble charge of black powder, then a sheet of cork. The firing pin punched through the cork, then the powder, then mashed the primer against the end of the hole. BOOM! Er -- more like PWFFFFFF!, actually.

    The pistol operated much like a lever-action rifle. In fact, after S&W gave up on it, the Volcanic was re-designed to use rimfire metallic cartridges and became first the Henry and then the Winchester M1866 -- by Oliver Winchester's company.

    S&W abandoned the Volcanic because they haad a new and better design -- the Wesson-designed .22 and .32 rimfire revolver that became the S&W Model 1. It ALSO used rimfire metallic cartridges, invented in Europe by Monsieur Flobert.

    The key to being able to manufacture the cartridge-using Model 1 lay in the Rollin White patent, which covered a revolver cylinder bored through from end to end, instead of partly drilled like a cap-and-ball cylinder. (White patented it for use in an unsuccessful cap-and-ball revolver.) S&W paid White $70,000 in royalties before that patent expired in 1869, but White had to spend a lot of that money defending the patent as people infringed upon it. He got $0.25 per revolver.

    The tiny Model 1 was the only handgun in the S&W line from 1856, when they formed their NEW partnership, to 1865, when the US Civil War ended. That was probably because they could sell everything they could make in wartime, so why complicate life by designing improvements?

    While the tiny Model 1 may seem ridiculous as a military weapon, it was actually very popular with Union officers. Forbidden to carry a large sidearm while wearing the uniform, they found that the Model 1 did not spoil the fit of their clothing.

    Speculation: What if S&W had realized that the same cure -- the Flobert rimfire cartridge -- that made the Model 1 possible had ALSO come as the salvation of the Volcanic design? Would S&W have become not only the great handgun manufacturer, but also have taken Winchester's place in history -- in RIFLES?

    Dave Tomlinson, NFA

    FOCUS: Hindsight is always 20-20 vision. In real life, the constant moan of humanity is, "It seemed like a good idea at the time!"
  9. pickenup

    pickenup Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2002
    Messages:
    6,858
    Location:
    Colorado Rocky Mountains
    Had one for a number of years. I was always afraid to use modern ammo in it. Sold it on an online "auction" site for $175 a while back. Sure would have liked to got $12-1600. :mad:
  10. gamachinist

    gamachinist New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2003
    Messages:
    213
    Location:
    Locust Grove GA
    Sounds like a good shooter!

    As for the spring on the breech block,mine doesn't have one,just the weight of the block and the hammer traps it down too.It could be that mine are worn out and since yours has a nice bore it is in nearly new condition!:D

    Robert.:cool:
  11. Smokin Guns

    Smokin Guns New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2002
    Messages:
    4,462
    Location:
    "Gun Culture Members Clubhouse"...
    getting closer...found an ammo manufacturer...

    [​IMG]


    FLOBERT AMMUNITION is named after the French gunsmith M. Flobert. He was the true inventor of the rimfire principle.
    Originally, Flobert ammunition was by definition a cartridge wherein the priming and propellant charges were one and the same. More recently, rimfire cartridges, small shot cartridges and Flobert cartridges supporting a round-nose bullet were developed to contain a small additional amount of powder as a supplementary propellant charge, thus enabling a more effective cartridge to be produced. These are the cartridges in use today.

    FLOBERT STARTING BLANKS are intended for use with starting and signal pistols. They emit a sharp loud bang of approximately 100 decibels.
    213 0327 .22 6mm Crimped Blank

    FLOBERT BULLETED CARTRIDGES in 6mm caliber with pointed or round-nose bullets are primarily intended for pest control. In spite of the small ignition charge, the cartridges maintain an accurate flight path. These cartridges are mainly fired from smooth barreled guns.
    Accuracy is ensured up to distances of 15 metres.
    213 0505 .22 6mm BB Caps
    213 0521 .22 6mm CB Caps



    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2003
  12. Smokin Guns

    Smokin Guns New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2002
    Messages:
    4,462
    Location:
    "Gun Culture Members Clubhouse"...
    Found a Retailer, order is in...now just waitin for my Hi-Powered BB Gun Ammo to get here. Thanks to all that helped!

    Gamachinst, Is the barrel rifled or not. It's got a spiraling of some kind in it?


    Flobert Ammo
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2003
  13. gamachinist

    gamachinist New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2003
    Messages:
    213
    Location:
    Locust Grove GA
    As far as I know,it's supposed to be rifled.Is yours smooth bored?Mine had something of a twist in a sewer pipe look when I bought it!I'll go dig out some books on single shots and see what I can find for you.
    Robert.
  14. Smokin Guns

    Smokin Guns New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2002
    Messages:
    4,462
    Location:
    "Gun Culture Members Clubhouse"...
    gamachinist, it looks like its rifled...:cool:
  15. gamachinist

    gamachinist New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2003
    Messages:
    213
    Location:
    Locust Grove GA
    SG,
    I havn't been able to get to the books that have the info on the Warnant you have.
    I'm pretty sure it is shown in "Arms of the World 1911"(a collection of catalogs from 1911),Probably "Boys Single Shot Rifles by Grant,and posibly some others if you can look in a library or if anyone else can look.If I get a chance I'll look over the coming weekend.
    Robert.:cool:
  16. z537z

    z537z New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2003
    Messages:
    598
    Location:
    Maine, love it or get the heck out
    Jeez where do you get all this stuff man? You startin an army that I should know about?
    Are the critters planning something?
    Should I lock my windows?

    6mm CB caps. Wierd stuff.
    Imagine it'd be pretty quiet fun stuff for shootin varms in the back yard. Like Colibris and whatnot.

    Let us know how it works out. Sure it can't use .22rimfire? dunno of any other "S or LR" round.

    _z
  17. gamachinist

    gamachinist New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2003
    Messages:
    213
    Location:
    Locust Grove GA
    z537z,
    As for wierd stuff,I missed out on a Anschutz 4 mm "cadet" style training rifle a few years back.I tried to buy it several times but just wasn't there at the right one when it finally was sold.
    I did get a deal on a 22 LR Mauser built trainer a few years later so I guess it all worked out (at least I can afford to shoot it).
    Robert.
  18. Smokin Guns

    Smokin Guns New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2002
    Messages:
    4,462
    Location:
    "Gun Culture Members Clubhouse"...
    Z,
    ...

    Im a'thinkin' they are!...Just want to be prepared when dem leetle sumsabiches, attack me on the way to the mailbox...;)
  19. z537z

    z537z New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2003
    Messages:
    598
    Location:
    Maine, love it or get the heck out
    I'm thinkin you're right ;) .

    Well I'm turbocharging my car.

    Puts a kibosh on my gun-buying!

    I'll see what I can do this summer.
    I want an older .22 pistol. Something nice.

    I'll try and check in here every couple days. Darn this off season!

    _z
  20. Smokin Guns

    Smokin Guns New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2002
    Messages:
    4,462
    Location:
    "Gun Culture Members Clubhouse"...
    Ammo arrived whils't I was away fer a cup'la dayz...Post up a pic tommorow...!...;)
Similar Threads
Forum Title Date
.22-Rimfire Forum Flobert(Garden Gun) Mar 12, 2014
.22-Rimfire Forum The "magical" FLOBERT May 22, 2008
.22-Rimfire Forum .22 flobert cb cap Mar 29, 2007
.22-Rimfire Forum 6mm flobert cb and bb cap Nov 22, 2006
.22-Rimfire Forum Ready for a "Flobert Championship Match" Sep 14, 2003

Share This Page