Fluted chambers and cases

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by Guest, Feb 24, 2003.

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    skinnypig8
    Member
    Posts: 1
    (11/30/02 7:46:44 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del All Fluted chambers and cases
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    how many reloads can you get (if any at all) from a case used in a fluted chamber? with military brass? i've heard that it destroys the case but the more experience i hear from, the better.

    AGunguy
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 2783
    (11/30/02 9:50:23 pm)
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    Welcome to Skinnypig8. Any relation to Warpig 007?

    You are of course talking about rifle chambering and bottle neck cartridge brass.

    Maybe I'm showing my ignorance on rifle chamberings, but the only flutes I'm familiar with are on revolver cylinders.

    I have never seen or heard of flutes on rifle brass. That because I load more handgun stuff than rifle.

    The amount of reloading you can get on rifle brass probably depends on how hot you load, and possibly brass stretching when resizing the cartridge case.

    Its important to lightly lube the brass before resizing, have the correct die setting so not to stretch the brass anymore than is necessary in sizing.

    Know what bullet weight you want to use get a factory round and set up your reloading dies to work on its dimensions as to the seating die.

    Maybe one of our more experienced rifle loaders will come along and give you better advice.

    Good luck.

    Gunguy

    skinnypig8
    Member
    Posts: 2
    (11/30/02 10:37:25 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Fluted chambers and cases
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    hey gunguy. sorry, no relation.
    what i'm referring to is the chambers on guns like the G3 which have a chamber that is fluted and use regular cartriges like the .308 winchester. From what i hear, a chamber like this will wreck your brass before it would normally give out.

    thanks anyway!

    kdub01
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1504
    (11/30/02 11:18:14 pm)
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    Yeah, Skinnypig8 - Welcome to The Firearms Forum! Hope you will join in the other discussions boards.

    As to reloading cases coming out of fluted chambers, I personally would hesitate to do so. Those G3's have pretty violent extractions and sure dirty up the cases. Those I've seen at the range have so many extractor and ejector gouges, plus the indented flutes and banged up necks and case mouths that I wouldn't bother to try reloading them. Additionally, I suspect the chambers are on the max diameter for aid in extraction, causing the cases to be swelled up like poisoned pups! Would be one mean case to get straightened out for reloading.
    "Keep Off The Ridgeline"

    AGunguy
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 2788
    (12/1/02 10:05:11 am)
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    So there are some rifle barrels with fluted chambers, what the heck is the purpose of those flutes if they are hard on brass???

    The physical dynamics of flutes would cut into the brass and would seem deterent to smooth cartridge extraction. Can't imagine why someone came up with that one.

    Gunguy

    kdub01
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1507
    (12/1/02 12:30:43 pm)
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    Actually, GG -

    When the M16 was experiencing jamming problems with the early models, one answer was to flute the chamber to allow blowby gas to aid in extraction. That's the whole idea behind fluted chambers - ease of extraction.

    The flutes are rounded so as not to sharply indent, or crease, the case. The cases look like Hell upon firing and ejection - sooty, fluted, dented, gouged, scratched, and besides all that - not pretty looking!

    I've only known full auto firearms having such chambers, and not too many, at that.
    "Keep Off The Ridgeline"

    AGunguy
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 2789
    (12/1/02 1:43:26 pm)
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    I see, is this only prevalent in the M-16 or did they include this fluted crap on the .308.

    Surely this fluted stuff is only on early military rifles...I hope and not on recent production standards.

    Interesting to say the least, thanks for the info.

    GG

    kdub01
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1510
    (12/1/02 4:29:22 pm)
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    They only did it for a while with the M16, Gunny. Then went back to the standard chamber when they straightened out the type of powder and loading of the cartridges, plus some minor mod's to the action.

    The German H&K, G3 and a couple other German full autos are, to my knowledge, the only ones using the fluted chamber at this time.
    "Keep Off The Ridgeline"

    skinnypig8
    Member
    Posts: 4
    (12/1/02 5:25:01 pm)
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    the CETME, immediate predecessor to the G3 has it too. would it be possible to get a barrel with regular chamber, and not have any problems with a semi-auto?

    AGunguy
    *TFF Staff*
    Posts: 2790
    (12/1/02 6:18:47 pm)
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    Skinnypig8, you might try Tapco.com, they sell some Cetme semiauto rifle parts...maybe they got a good barrel for you.

    Good luck on finding it...and let us know if you come up with a source.

    Gunguy

    Big R
    Member
    Posts: 5
    (12/4/02 12:50:11 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Purpose of flutes
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    There are 2 types of fluted chambers in use, 1 is inline with the chamber,primarily on gas operated weapons to assist in extraction, the other is at 90 degrees to the chamber, primarily on blowback operated SMG,s to slow down the cyclic rate and to keep cases from rupturing from being extracted while the barrel is still at full pressure.

    Note: The Russian 12.7 mm anti-tank rifle has inline flutes, and it is a bolt action weapon.

    jeeper1
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 370
    (12/4/02 4:25:55 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: Fluted chambers and cases
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    Getting back to the original question, I have gotten up to 8 reloads out of a case previously fired in a fluted chamber. Of course they were in an XP100 pistol with a smooth chamber. I would not reuse them in a fluted chamber. They are not hard to resize if the rims are in good shape. Also I was at the same time necking them down to 708 remington.

    skinnypig8
    Member
    Posts: 5
    (12/5/02 5:21:13 pm)
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    why would you not re-use them in a fluted chamber?

    75BDdude
    Member
    Posts: 15
    (12/5/02 7:54:50 pm)
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    I have re-loaded 308 cases fired in a fluted HK chamber. They functioned many times in my M1-A with absolutley no problems. I couldn't tell the difference between them and ones that had only spent their lives in my M1-A..... Not sure what the hub-bub is about....

    I'd say look at the cases through a loupe.... the stripes on the sides of the brass are mostly just carbon. Once you tumble them well, trim for length, and resize 'em there won't be any difference.

    YYMV

    jeeper1
    V.I.P. Member
    Posts: 371
    (12/6/02 10:42:19 pm)
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    It is my opinion that the risk of case failure is too great. I have had my face opened up from case failure once, that was enough for me.

    75BDdude
    Member
    Posts: 16
    (12/7/02 12:38:56 am)
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    I had a diaper-loading-experience before with case failure also. But not with a reloaded case from a fluted chamber. It was with some FA 43 30-06 Ammo. Blew gases through the sides of the cases in logitudinal fluted fashion. That crap got tossed right away.
    It's my opinion that if you keep the pressures middle of the road you should be able to get about 2 reloads from a bottle necked case in a fluted chamber, then discard. Heck, with my M1-A and M1 Garand I tend to pitch the brass after 3 to 4 loadings just because of the violence of the extraction cycle. It tends to get a little too close to head-sep time for my taste. I check the cases and once one starts to exibit thinning in the web area the whole batch goes to the can.

    kdub01
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 1539
    (12/7/02 1:01:16 pm)
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    "When in doubt - toss it out!"

    A reloading motto I've lived with in some 40 years of reloading.
    "Keep Off The Ridgeline"

    Mauser45
    Member
    Posts: 15
    (12/19/02 9:59:17 pm)
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    ezSupporter
    Re: Fluted chambers and cases
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    Back in the 70's there were a lot of articles written about the Heckler and Koch rifles with the fluted chambers. Instead of conventional square locking lugs they used rollers in the bolt to lock it and they incorporated the flutes in the chamber to help delay the bolt from moving rearward until pressures were down to the proper amount. It is a well engineered system and is still used in their .223 and .308 rifles. Hk 92 an Hk 93's ? There were several articles about reloading the ammo and it was found that there was no problem with reloading the brass. It was just unsightly seeing the slight grooves remaining in the brass after resizing. Definitely tumble the brass! Inspect the brass for cracks etc. the same as you would normally do. If any of you are interested in a "battle" rifle that is accurate enough for varmints, buy an HK.!!!

    Bob In St Louis
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3471
    (12/20/02 10:09:25 am)
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    I have reloaded 308 brass fired in my HK91 three to four times without any problems. It does look funky with the flute grooves on the surface, but it does not seem to affect the brass strength.

    I wish I still had that HK91, but - oh well.
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