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Folding stocks, illegal?

Discussion in 'The Pre-Ban Forum' started by Tristinjk, Feb 16, 2004.

  1. Tristinjk

    Tristinjk New Member

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    SF, South Dakota
    A buddy and I were talking(about guns), and we got on the subject of folding stocks being a part of the ban that is sunsetting and are illegal to put on a rifle or shotgun.

    Is this a part of the Preban vs Postban parts to put on firearm? As in gun was postban but FS is Preban so it can't be put on it. Or is it a State by State issue?
  2. LIKTOSHOOT

    LIKTOSHOOT Advanced Senior Member

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    Besides preban/post ban, the key is "detatchable magazine/feed device. Case in point (SKS) standard model. No matter when made or imported, it can have a folding stock added. It was never listed as an assualt rifle (except by some states)......why? It has a fixed magazine, convert it to a detatchable magazine, you now run afoul of the law.


    LTS
  3. izaakb

    izaakb New Member

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    Folding stock OK AFTER sunset

    I think the question was "what's ok after the sunset of the AW Ban?"

    ANY of the proscribed features (flash hider, folding stock, pistol grip, etc etc) are ok AFTER and ONLY AFTER the AW ban has "sunsetted" and is dead.

    The key is TWO features... i.e.

    "IF it has a detachable magazine, and more than one other feature (folding stock, pistol grip, flash hider, etc) then it is an 'assault weapon' and thus banned from NEW manufacture."

    Note:

    The AW Ban does not cover IMPORTS. These were banned previously and will not change if the AW Ban sunsets. In other words, IF (God willing) the AW ban sunsets, you'll be able to buy a rifle from Bushmaster/DPMS but not from SIG or Norinco.

    regards
  4. boeboe

    boeboe New Member

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    May 31, 2003
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    Legal SKS Modifications

    Different opinion, based on the following site, I believe is correct. The SKS is subject to a whole series of other laws besides the assault weapons ban of 1994. These laws are rather gray, but it is possible an ATF interpretation may mean you cannot legally put a folding stock on an SKS.

    http://www.simonov.net/uberlaw.htm

    From there, the following:
    ____________________________________________________

    ASSEMBLY AND MODIFICATION OF FIREARMS:
    SUMMARY: One may own a SKS in any form so long as the SKS is not a semiautomatic assault weapon or in a form that would otherwise be banned from import. Determining what is banned from import, understanding how to build a domestic SKS, and understanding the definition of semiautomatic assault weapon are more or less the universal keys in keeping your SKS legal.

    EXPLAINATION:

    When a person modifies an existing weapon, they are considered to be assembling a completely different weapon. US Code Chapter 44 Section 922(r) states that "it shall be unlawful for anyone to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle ... which is identical to any rifle prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) of this chapter". [I can find no legal definition as to what "identical" means. Identical in function rules out all detachable magazines on imported SKS's, but identical in form means non-military, aftermarket SKS magazines are completely legal since an AK magazine is not interchangeable with a SKS magazine.] 925(d) gives the Secretary of the Treasury final authority on what firearms can be imported or possessed in the United States if the firearm does not appear in section 5845(a) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954. This code lists firearms that are particularly suited for sporting purposes and the SKS does not appear on that list. This means that the Secretary of the Treasury, who is in the cabinet and is a direct agent of the President of the United States, determines the fate of the SKS's import status. If the Secretary were to ban the SKS in all it's forms, it will no longer be legal to possess in the U.S., although most likely subject to some grandfather clause.

    On July 7th, 1989 various military style rifles were banned from importation by the Secretary of the Treasury under the Presidency of GEORGE HERBERT WALKER BUSH. (I can hear you gasping even now!). On that day, he banned the "SKS style rifle with [a] folding stock, folding bayonet, or detachable magazine" from importation. This means that one may not import or assemble a weapon of this description unless it has TEN OR LESS of the imported parts listed under Part 178.39(c). [This still leaves open the question as to how all these Romanians are getting in with the the bayonet attached. C&R?] Those parts listed under Part 178.39(c) are as follows:
    ____________________________________________________

    So, the law could be interpreted to prohibit putting a folding stock on an SKS based on an interpretation of the text. Not that anyone has yet been convicted of such a crime, or similar offense. From what I understand, there has never been one conviction vased on these laws, including the '94 AWB. Probably because they are worded so poorly.
  5. izaakb

    izaakb New Member

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    Original question wasn't about SKS

    Original query was about folding stocks in general..
  6. boeboe

    boeboe New Member

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    FS

    Your question is not really very clear.

    If you are asking if it is illegal to own a folding stock, no.

    If you are asking if it is illegal to put a folding stock on a legitimate preban rifle (one that had two assault weapons features before the ban) the answer is no.

    If you are asking if it is illegal to put a folding stock on a post pan semi-auto rifle that takes detatchable magazines, technically it could be done if it didn't have a pistol grip, and the rifle didn't have any of the other evil assault weapons features. Theoretically, you could have a folding stock on such a firearm if it didn't have a pistol grip, flash hider, grenade launcher, or bayonet lug. Problem is, it isn't likely you will find a folding stock that doesn't require a pistol grip.
  7. Tristinjk

    Tristinjk New Member

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    Location:
    SF, South Dakota
    better clarify things a little...

    Sorry, I guess the question was a little too broad. It was supposed to be generalized, but I have gotten curious about putting one on my shotgun. It's a Mossberg 500A.

    Doesn't have any of the 'evil' features, so wouldn't it be legal?

    Hell, even if it wasn't a folding stock, just a stock w/pistol grip would be fine.



    good conversation going here, don't want it to go sour on my account :D.
  8. izaakb

    izaakb New Member

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    pump shotgun with 5rd mag is ok

    Hey..

    There are separate rules for rifles, shotguns, and handguns.

    Provided you have a pump shotgun with a magazine of 5 rounds or less, not including the chamber, you can use a folding stock.

    For shotguns, the rules are a little different. It is "either a detachable magazine OR capacity greater than 5 rds"

    Most Mossberg 500s are 5 or 8 rd. By installing a folding stock with a pistol grip, you add two 'bad' features. Since the 8 rd version already has one (8 rd mag) that's too many on that one.

    Using a folding stock (i.e. ATI or Choate) on a 5 rd version is fine. I have one myself. no problem.

    regards
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2004
  9. Tristinjk

    Tristinjk New Member

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    ahhh I see!

    Cool, thanks for the info. That really helps out!
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