follow on , an invite to discuss

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by jack404, Feb 20, 2010.

  1. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

    Jan 11, 2010
    A way forward

    If there is a chance in this world for us to create a decent place through non violent uprising or rebellion , we must be prepared to take it , grasp it with both hands and hold onto it for all we are worth.
    With the current crop of leaders being less than desirable in most ways and counter freedom and liberty for the masses in most ways if we can get a new leadership that is favourable how do we hold onto it in the face of the overwhelming bias of the mass media and the Global power brokers set against them?

    The best way is education but this creates the problems of how to educate an entire generation in a span of less than four years , how do we educate those who traditionally vote for those who we free thinking people are against freedom and natural justice ?
    I propose a 3 levelled approach based on a old idea

    National service also called “the Draft”

    This would not be a traditional draft system meant to fill the ranks of the military at times of crisis , or when national ideas are lacking in the general population this draft would be 3 fold in its nature and not militaristic in its context

    First layer juniors

    These can be eco friendly ventured designed to create a national “can do spirit” in the young people of today , which many are sorely lacking
    Instead of playing Nintendo or hanging in malls or joining gangs and dealing drugs, kids will be joined into groups that deal with the small issues of their area
    These ideally would include planting of green areas in their area , cleaning up in old peoples homes light yard work for the disabled in our communities , attending lectures that would instil in them ( we hope ) a sense of pride and self determination

    Areas where graffiti of an obnoxious kind exist could be covered with children’s own artistic graffiti , vandalising of such would be fast to be discovered and reported
    Graffiti artists are known already to report those who cover their own works so we take advantage of this artistic pride to catch and control such activity

    We should teach them about laws and justice and explain why these are important
    And we should teach them about community as there is very little of this today

    Next layer the unemployed

    Many unemployed people fall into crime due to the simple lack of skills or of the lack of a good honest work ethic, when young they see dope dealers driving nice cars and hanging out all day and becoming popular amongst their peers
    If there was a combined effort to eradicate drug dealers and to punish users and place all into work schemes there would be a massive reduction in consumers and suppliers

    It would never stop all demand for drugs sadly but it would have a impact
    By creating national work campaigns for national infrastructure projects as done in the past this mould of drugs and street crime could be broken
    Offenders would be sent to work camps and given skills and training and education and work to occupy them and benefit the nation as a whole.

    Side by side with regular unemployed people who would also be encouraged to get better skills and training these people could accomplish much with minimal input.

    Skills such as cooking, carpentry, building skills, bricklaying are all needed and would stop the need for skilled migration for these areas
    Other work could be in the protection of national assets and of borders
    With many put to work creating a national border fence system and support facilities for the system , this alone would engage many hundreds of thousands for many years
    Then there are the infrastructure projects , whilst many could be completed very expensively but in a shorter time with massive machinery many could be trained in small plant operations like bulldozers and backhoes etc , it may take longer but at less cost and at great national gain, Yes large corporation would miss out on government contracts and no politicians would get the usual kickbacks but is this not a good thing?

    With a ageing population and a lack of staff being a major issue many of these people could be trained into aged care , both for the private and public sectors, and while it would take a couple of years of ongoing training after a couple of years the influx in to these industries would benefit the nation as a whole

    Once people have completed there basic level of training and time in the national service projects it would be stupid to just allow those skills to go to waste where there is not jobs so it would be necessary to reduce the amount of imported goods sold by a number of means , thereby increasing the need for local industry in both material supply and in manufacturing , not only would this be good for the economy on many levels but it would also increase the funds available for national projects and training and a greater option of training skills could be provided

    If this thought was to be extended whereby overseas manufacturing was brought onshore again this would also lessen the amount of taxes currently being avoided by these companies , many whom have spent fortunes in building these specialised manufacturing facilities overseas not for the cheaper labour but to avoid paying their fair and true rate of taxes

    But the time the first draft was being released back onto the community it would be in time for these new industries to be looking for worker to fill their ranks

    The third layer the public service corps

    This would be available to people out of work or those looking to fulfil a public service desire

    These roles would be in border protection, medical assistance services, emergency response for natural disaster and disaster relief

    As with the first two layers these would have to be state run services a nationalised service model just adds to big government and take control out of the realm of the people
    All these things are for the beneifit of the people and of the nation

    There is a lot more to it but its taken me over 2 days to write this with my one finger and I’ve gotta quit

    But it’s a starting point

    This was not written for the USA or for my home Australia but for a new start for both

    Both nations are suffering under big government that are run by a elite few who deem themselves to know what is good and just for themselves and say bugger the little guy despite what they state before an election

    With a model such as this ( and its not a new invention most of this came from both our lands in the earlier part of this century here we had the snowy mountains projects and many other similar national projects, in the US you had many similar that turned the tide at what could have been a very bleak time indeed)
    There can be a way forward in a good way

    We just have to try , we have to elect those who stand for the people and not for big government , those who would tar control from the big government and corporations and hand it back to the states and local groups who made these scheme s work because they cared and because at that scale it was audited and controlled at the level needed to keep them effective and honest and also consider the individuals involved as it is made up of individual human beings

    Think about it , ask your friends about these idea or come up with your own versions
    But something has to be done and soon


  2. carver

    carver Moderator Supporting Member

    Jack, I think you're on the right track. End unemployment by stopping the importation of goods that can be made in country. Supply, and demand will create jobs as products are needed, and wanted. Put a tax on imported goods that will make it possible for local manufactures to meet the need at a fair price. I like what Israel does, everyone has to serve two years in the military right out of high school, and they then help with the cost of college. Back when our nations were young everyone went to school either in the home, or in a church run school. We have to get back to that, teaching our young ones what the public school system leaves out, or perverts. We have to elect moral leaders, and that's the hard part. No moral man or woman wants to get involved with the thieves, and thugs, that run our nations. But they are necessary if we want to prosper. Those of us that have a moral compass must step up, and be willing to give of ourselves to help run our nations. Here in America it will be easier for us to do this than it is in Australia. There is no other way that this can be done other than to elect people that will do the right thing. Start at the local level, and elect these folks on up the ladder. It will take time to turn things around, but then we didn't get into this mess over night.

  3. ponycar17

    ponycar17 Active Member

    Feb 17, 2005
    South Carolina
    We can only take the world back through any means by educating the public. I'm afraid that modern media is not in our favor in this process. One person at a time is the best that most of us can do, and even then it gets tiring. Most people have no concept of economic or financial theory and aren't willing to listen; instead, they push to the front of the line leaders who promise grandiose deliverables that few understand will only further enslave us.

    Besides the grand task of education we must first get past the immense apathy that exists in modern culture. The real leaders of this world have learned that keeping us fat, dumb and happy with entertainment held to a 5th grade level will ensure that their intentions are not revealed and certainly will never be opposed. That is the reason for the welfare state. The welfare state ensures that people are kept at a comfortable level of existence while not being required to exert themselves. Those people will never rise in opposition but instead will gladly accept their crumbs like rats grabbing the leftovers.

    The middle classes are becoming just as bad. The attitude that, "as long as I have a job I'm happy" permeates throughout the demographic. There is seemingly no incentive to learn what's going on around us.

    The US TEA Party movement is the most refreshing beam of light I've seen in my short life (30) as masses of people have started becoming educated and are willing to protest. I hope it will not be short-lived. ;)

    Simply put, I've grown apathetic to apathy. People are stupid by design of their leaders. I don't know what can be done. :confused:

    And I'll end with this quote...

    “Once the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the Republic.” – Benjamin Franklin

  4. ponycar17

    ponycar17 Active Member

    Feb 17, 2005
    South Carolina
    carver, isolationism is what prevented us from emerging from the Great Depression sooner. Trade with Europe as we exported arms for the war effort is what put us back onto our feet. As a result, it's no surprise that world trade has become popular and seen as necessary. We're fighting a losing game if we don't talk about the real problem that faces us - private central banking.
  5. carver

    carver Moderator Supporting Member

    Sir, I am not advocating isolationism! I am simply stating that if we don't make it here, then there will be no jobs! We still live in a world that is growing smaller every day, and we do have to keep up. If China builds a better car than an American Co., and they want to sell it here, then let them. America will then produce a car that is just as good, and at the same price. Trade is important, but you don't cut off your nose to spite your face!
  6. ponycar17

    ponycar17 Active Member

    Feb 17, 2005
    South Carolina
    Carver, I wasn't trying to be offensive. I apologize if it seemed that way. :eek:

    I misunderstood your point.

    I recently bought some Wolverine safety boots. The guy was going on and on about the other brands. I said, "are they still made in the US?" He says, "yes, that's why they've been higher in price..." I said, "yet another reason to take them." :)

    Not everyone operates on the principles that you and I may share. :(
  7. carver

    carver Moderator Supporting Member

    No offense taken Ponycar, I was just trying to clear up my stand, and didn't want you to become offended. No apology needed.
  8. Trouble 45-70

    Trouble 45-70 New Member

    Might be a good idea Jack. Can't see the Congress reinstituting the draft but it would be a good thing.

    I am pleased with the TEA Party movement as they encourage learning the History and structure of the govt. I have seen several attempts to co-opt it but so far the attacks have been generally unsuccessful. I think the big Think Tanks are going to try to address the movement so we will have to be cautious about them. so far they have just tried to demonize us and there arguments don't hold water. Madison Ave. is the masters of the Big Lie and 1/2 Truths. Only the truth can protect us from them.
  9. Bobitis

    Bobitis Guest

    On a side note.

    I have bought steel for almost 30 years. Domestic and foreign produced.
    50 years ago, our mills were state of the art. The US could out produce any country in the world.

    When the rest of the world caught up with us, big business percieved this as a threat. They lobbied congress to pass import taxes in order to save their bank accounts. This had two effects. The price of imported steel increased, and gave the US manufactureres a reason to increase their prices.
    I'm sure you can see where this is going.

    At the same time, the world is catching up to the US. Technology is improving. Efficiency is increasing. Shipping is becoming cheaper. SO what do we do? Increase tarrifs! Then the US manufacturers can again increase their prices.:rolleyes:

    The industrial mega corps in the US have failed miserably in trying to keep up. Why?

    They got theirs ($$$) and bailed out on the US.

    Now our steel mills are owned by other countries. The new owners have a concept of making money in the long term. They buy the mills, upgrade them, and take the profit overseas.

    The greatest generation of our country also was the greatest downfall.
    Many gave their lives for freedom. Many took that sacrifice to the bank without looking back.:mad:

    Why should the middle east be able to buy US made steel for less than we can?
    Why can I buy US made drugs cheaper from other countries?

    It's made 'here' so I should have to pay more for it?:confused::mad:

    Where does this math come from?

    And people wonder why our econmy is in the out house......:rolleyes:
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2010
  10. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

    Jan 11, 2010
    same stupid situation here Bob

    i can buy australian stel cheeper from china than i can from the mills here

    i think its a negotiated deal or something maybe the chinese buy that much thier discount is that big, i dunno but some common sence has got to weigh through some where

    as for the rest its a idea , its a small part of a lot of ideas

    what we need is for other to have ideas and discuss them , write thier representatives about thier ideas and what they want for thier nations

    but this "pay china for stuff we could make ourselves" is wrong

    they are the enemy

    communism being funded by capitalist societies?? nutz

    but thats what happening and they took our workers job tooboot!!!

    and that screwed us

    so a 42" inch flat screen will cost $1000 instead of $600 big deal so a car costs $24K instead of $12K big deal

    i aint funding the next communist expansion


  11. Bobitis

    Bobitis Guest

    I'm with ya Jack.

    The problem lies in the greed.
    Corporate greed and that of the shareholders.

    The almighty American Dollar has come to roost.
    This is what the world has to pay for it.

    Quality vs cheap.

    The US (being the money hungry bastards that we are), see no benefit in upscaling industry. Let it go to another country and they can deal with it.

    Then we (US) can worry about it later.:rolleyes:
    I got mine eh?

    Greed Now.:(
    The lest of ya lots? You'll pay later.:mad:
  12. ponycar17

    ponycar17 Active Member

    Feb 17, 2005
    South Carolina
    Keep pretending that your decisions make a difference and I'll keep drawing Magnadoodle prints of objects on my son's toy. :eek:

    We're pretending here.... :rolleyes:
  13. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

    Jan 11, 2010
    you may be pretending there but 100,000 folks here who attended a meeting outside of Sydney would disagree with you about here

    we expected maybe 5000, there where 60,000 cars and bikes that we could count

    keep downplaying the possabilities ponycar, Bo Bo and crew may give you a medal for it

    with responces like that you ARE screwed , but you DO NOT speak for here


    Last edited: Feb 21, 2010
  14. carver

    carver Moderator Supporting Member

    I used to work for AT&T in Shreveport, LA. In '84 they shut the plant down, and moved the business over seas. The U.S. should have told them then that if they wanted to move overseas, then fine, move. But there will be a tarrif to be paid, and when your phones reach the U.S. market the cost will high enough that an American made phone will cost less. This goes for all companies that used to go over seas. We also used to run a small business ourselves. We bought, and sold U.S. made products, as well as some of the better made products from other countries, but not much of the cheap China made stuff. One by one the U.S. companies started going over seas to manufacture, and the quality dropped. Precious Moments was one of the items we sold. They were made in America, very collectible. The company moved over seas, the quality dropped, and you couldn't give them away. The prices didn't change though. Slowly we started haveing sales problems, and began to drop those companies that manufactured elsewhere. Today we are out of business. You just can't buy anything made here.
  15. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

    Jan 11, 2010
    Carver i would not say you cant buy anything

    Here we have had a education program for our small business's

    Buy Australian , if you cannot buy Australian Buy Australian Allies

    machine tools that use to make guns are hard to get from Oz , but via the US i still am able to buy a goodly range , many from smaller places like AtoZ in Arizona, button reamers from Danjon (Conn. i think) 90% of my tooling is US made the rest Oz maybe some brit stuff left but not much eh ..

    our list here is
    1 Australia
    2 USA
    3 NZ
    4 UK
    5 Netherlands
    6 Germany
    7 Japan ( seems odd eh but they back us in afghanistan )

    the rest well its up to the individual after this
    I used to Buy IBM PC's but they are all Lenovo chinese made now

    so yeah its hard but not impossible take a good look and see whats about and i think you'll find stuff

    but you need to get the majority back on board to get the quality and jobs back as we are trying to do here

    but as Bob said greed is the major factor there

    people selling there nations out for a few bucks

    sad eh


    Last edited: Feb 21, 2010
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