Formal response to the 911 Article. Nothing will happen until people realize this...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Remington597, Apr 15, 2004.

  1. Remington597

    Remington597 Former Guest

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    Until Western Civilization realizes that Judeo-Christendom is at war for survival with fundamentalist islam, we will never even come close to winning this war. Liberals preach that we should be tolerant of other religions. Why should I tolerate that which is trying to kill me.

    Quotes from the Koran:

    Here is what the Koran says about those who do not believe in allah..

    Koran

    Surah 4:89 :" They desire that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, so that you all may be alike, take not from them friends, until the fly into allah's way, but if they turn back, seize them! and kill them wherever you find them."!!


    Surah 47:4 :" When you meet unbelievers, chop off their heads!!"

    Surah 48.9: "Those who follow the prophet are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another."



    Comparsions to Christianity.

    Hell is the separation from God.
    We have free will to be with God or to separate from him.
    Love is the ultimate sacrifice.
    Christ is the ultimate role model.
    Be merciful to all.
    If attacked, defend thyself and fight evil. (Christ turning over the tables in the temple and staying vigilant against fear and greedl).
    Legalism and blind interepretation is death.
    God gave you intelligence, use it to tell right from wrong.


    Remember next time a liberal tells you to be more tolerant, understand what it is that you are tolerating. Use the intelligence that God gave you and investigate for yourself. Don't ever take a Globalist's or Bolshevic's word for it. Their agenda is to spread a secular world view throughout America and the world.

    God bless America!!
  2. Marlin

    Marlin *TFF Admin Staff Chief Counselor*

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    Agreed 100%.
  3. 1952Sniper

    1952Sniper New Member

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    I agree, for the most part. But let's be real careful how we define this. Judeo-Christendom is not at war with Islam. There is no reason to kill people just for believing differently.

    The Islamist war is against ANYONE who doesn't believe as they do. This is not specific to Christians and Jews, but to everyone. So if we're going to fight this scourge, we need to do it on a united front as people defending themselves. Not as some sort of holy war.
  4. kravi

    kravi New Member

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    I think that the Islamists are not fighting Christianity or Judaism, but the modern world as we know it. It isn't because Christians believe the Messiah has come, or that Jews haven't embraced the Koran. It is a reaction against the evolution of the world. They inflict more violence on their own Muslim societies in a day to day level than they do to us.

    Islam does have written in it an ideology for Jihad. However, it very clearly states that Jews and Christians (if they pay a tax) should be exempt for the rules of holy war.The Koran does not preach forcible conversion of Jews and Christians, and it is easy to misquote (because it does preach forcible conversion of polythiests).

    Islam is not the enemy. Christianity had its rather barbaric moments in the middle ages, and Judaism had it's moments of barbarism during the time of the bible. The vast majority of Muslims do not preach hatred.

    The problem is a society which allows those who preach hatred to thrive. He who does not condemn a thing, condones that thing. The problem is the tolerance of certain Islamic societies, not Islam, and not every Islamic society. Jordan, as a whole, has been trying to squelch radical Islam for a long time. Egypt is fighting it's own war against it.

    The problem with our current war in Iraq, I believe, is that it gives the Islamists (not Muslims) ammunition to convince people we are ruthless crusaders, and that it is focusing all of the animosity and anger inherint in a mostly disfunctional society against us, rather than their own leaders who are not combating poverty and degredation.

    Just my two cents.

    -Kravi
  5. 1952Sniper

    1952Sniper New Member

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    That blows my mind. I cannot understand how anyone could think this is the "right" way to live. The more I learn about this religion, the more mistrusting I become.

    I wonder how long it's going to take Spain to raise enough money to pay this "tax".
  6. kravi

    kravi New Member

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    I kind of find Spain's behavior (in withdrawing from Iraq) very ironic. I mean, this is the same country that had the Reconquista, yes? Oh how the mighty have fallen...

    It blows my mind too. I'm not trying to say everything is fine. I'm simply saying there are very clear statements in the Koran prohibiting holy wars against Jews and Muslims.

    Of course, as we've seen with almost every religion, fanatics will take the parts they want and ignore the rest. But this is also why I'm saying the war shouldn't be against Islam. It should be against the Islamists (and other kindred groups).

    Just to make myself clear, I do NOT believe that we should not have involved ourselves. I do not believe that if we "act all nice" they will leave us alone. I do believe that this is the beginning of a struggle, and that those who want to sit on the sidelines and not get involved are fools. They will get bitten too.

    I do, however, think that, strategically thinking, Bush Junior's invasion of Iraq was a mistake and that there will be nasty consequences that at this point are unavoidable. I think that every single Islamist will now look almost exclusively at the US as a target, and that their ranks will grow because of our "imperialism".

    -Kravi
  7. JohnK3

    JohnK3 New Member

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    "Imperialism" is an excuse that's been thrown at the U.S.A. since we opposed Communism and Socialism after WWII. It doesn't stick, because we usually don't hold on to territory we gain as a result of war.

    Make no mistake, Kravi, we were a target from the beginning. We are no more a target now than we were then. Take a look at history, especially the early history of the U.S.A. Look up "Tripoli" and figure out why "the shores of Tripoli" figure in the Marine Corps Battle Hymn. Why the founding Democrat, Thomas Jefferson, said "Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute." Iraq makes a lot of sense if you think beyond the mass-media BS. It makes a lot of sense in an overall strategic and diplomatic perspective. Move past what the mass-media would stuff down your throat and start thinking in long-term, applied leverage and grand strategic terms.

    We need to apply pressure on the Middle East. Most desperately, we need a total regime change in the Middle East in every country in the region, with the exception of Israel. How best to apply the pressure? Iraq was the strongest nation in the area. It was run by one of the most ruthless of a ruthless group of rulers. He regularly contributed to terrorist groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah, paying pensions to the families of homicide bombers in Israel. He was seen by many in the region as the Saladin of the 21st Century, ready to do battle with and destroy the Crusaders. Through his connections with al Qaeda (yes, they existed, despite the desperate claims of the mass-media to the contrary), he funded and provided training facilities to terrorist organizations throughout the Islamo-fascist world. In effect, he *was* the premier Islamo-fascist/Stalinist.

    By taking him out, with the ease that we did, other despots in the area that previously didn't want to bargain, stepped up to the bargaining table. Syria is playing nice, now. Libya made serious efforts to reopen relations with the U.S.A. Even North Korea started to waffle on their previous hard line.

    Then Madrid was bombed. Now Fallujah. Both of these are tests of resolve. They were bound to happen no matter where we had concentrated forces next. If we had remained in Afghanistan, incidents similar to this would have happened. The intent of the enemy is clear: recreate Mogadishu and make the Americans turn tail and run. Only, this time it won't happen. Not as long as Bush is president. The insurgents' only hope is to hold on for another 200+ days until the election and hope for Kerry to win. Because then, we are lost. If Kerry wins, he will most likely pull a Socialist Spain and pull out of Iraq and hand it all over to the UN, who will go back to their traditional dictator-support-group methodology. Koffi Annan is a corrupt, faithless, dirty politician. He plays games to fill the pockets of his family and cronies worse than any "Halliburton" BS that ever was dreamed up by the Democrats. The Food For Oil program was nothing but a way to lift the sanctions against Saddam without actually lifting them. It was used to enrich Annan's family and friends, as well as continue to pour money into Saddam's pockets for his palaces and weapons programs.

    Mistake? Only if we pull out before we're done.
  8. Remington597

    Remington597 Former Guest

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    It must also be pointed out that the crusades were conducted by the heretical catholic church, which in no way respresents post reformation christendom and the reforms put in place by Martin Luther. It is also true that attrocities were committed by the reformers as well., but we must make an essential and clear distinction between the actions of sinful men and what is essential Christian doctrine.
    In an analysis of Christian doctrine vs. muslim doctine, Christian doctrine is superior in every way because it preaches self sacrifice as the ultimate form of love and free will as an essential catalyst whereof. In contrast, Islam preaches imperialism and mandatory conversion, whereas Christianity defines it as a function of free will. This distinction is the difference between night and day.

    On the subject of alleged American Imperialism, none exists. We are a republic inspired by Providence and we respect all life.
    If we did not, Native Americans would have been irradicated, and Negroes would continue to be slaves. Make no mistake about it, this Nation is a direct function of God Almighty and those who stand against us are destined for the bowels of history.
  9. Naldo

    Naldo New Member

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    I see no difference between this kind of thinking and that of the "jihadists". Claiming you're right by divine providence is not only just plain ridiculous but the cause of so much of this baloney in the first place.

    We're right because we're the good guys, we don't take hostages and burn them and mutilate them for extortion. We're right because we try to save lives, not take them indiscriminately, we're right because we try to feed these people, no matter any economic incentives.

    They are a backward, barbaric, dark ages type people that never had the benefit of a cultural renaissance as the west did. They're culture while once a leader in science and mathematics has stagnated to the point of near collapse. What's going on now is we're trying to drag them kicking and screaming and exploding into the 21st century and it's not going to be easy.
  10. inplanotx

    inplanotx New Member

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    Well, I have been trying to stay out of this debate, but I guess I'll add my $.02 worth. I agree with you Naldo and I have the same values that support it. I also agree that our founding fathers, who were God fearing peoples, had the same idea, but wanted to preserve the separation of Church and state.
  11. Carl S

    Carl S New Member

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    Well stated, JohnK3! I agree.

    Remington597, I agree with your post except for ”If we did not, Native Americans would have been irradicated". In fact, the US definitely practiced genocide against Indians: in the South - forced relocation - the Trail of Tears - which was not unlike the Bataan death march; in the west – mass murders including women and children sleeping in their villages (Sand Creek, Wounded Knee, etc); the Army shipping infected blankets to those freezing on reservations. Locating reservations on land not fit for hunting/gathering nor agriculture, etc. The justification of the massacres of women and children was, and I quote, “Nits make lice”. Some tribes were driven to extinction.

    There are evil people in any and all religions and the above is not a condemnation of Christianity. It is a condemnation of evil done in the name of religion.

    The Koran pits Islam against ALL other religions. Nowhere does the New Testament call for the eradication of non-believers.
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