Fossils

Discussion in 'Religious Discussions' started by Diamondback, Aug 19, 2012.

  1. Archie

    Archie Member

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    Mr. Christensen; you are quite correct, God would not create a race of humanity so defective. Nor did He.

    Almighty God created humanity in His image. Not a physical image, but a spiritual and mental image. Humanity could think, decide and make choices - self-aware and self-determining.

    Shortly after that, humanity made a conscious choice to disobey God. In doing so, humanity screwed itself up rather badly and the result is what you see about you now.

    At this point, usually the agnostic (or drooling atheist, I deal with both) says, "Well, God SHOULD have made us so we didn't screw up!"

    In other words, God should have made us without free will? Much like dogs, dolphins, cockroaches and Jack's platypus?

    Or are you going to argue God should have made us with free will, but not capable of screwing up? That is a logical impossibility and remains a logical impossibility even if one throws God's name into the mix.

    Humanity is terribly flawed, not due to God, but due to mankind.

    The Universe - as we understand it - is in fact nearly 15 billion years old. God created it, established the rules that run it and watches it. The God with whom I deal is that big, that old and that patient. Frankly, I like the Biblical version of pre-history than I like the Bishop Ussher version.
  2. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

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    I once bought into all that stuff, Archie - had it drilled into my brain in the public school system. Further study of the evidence for - and against - a billions-of-years-old planet, however, convinced me that the universe - and the earth - is no where near that age.

    Going strictly by the evidence, I see no way the earths age can exceed 20,000 years.
    And I came to that conclusion LONG before I was a Christian, or accepted the Bible as fact.
  3. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Radiometric dating, for instance, is highly flawed.
    Did you know that carbon 14 dating, accepted as factual and accurate, had to have a 'correction factor' used on it to make it come into line with KNOWN ages from dendochronology? NO explanation for that correction, other than it was NEEDED.
  4. RunningOnMT

    RunningOnMT New Member

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    Yep. As much as science touts it's "scientific method", the truth is, the history of science is full of error and even intentional deceptions, designed to support theory.

    Awhile back while reading Genesis a thought occurred to me that might explain the apparent discrepancy between biblical history and scientific history based on geological and fossil evidence.

    "1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
    2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
    3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
    4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
    5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."


    Time is not measured by some transcendent standard, the increments of which is never changing. We measure time by one thing; the earths rotation and orbit around the sun. The Bible has already defined what one day is; the "evening and the morning". In other words one full cycle of darkness and one full cycle of light. It is not impossible to imagine that various events in the early history of the universe, altered both the earth's rotation and it's solar orbit. Thus our standard of measurement of time has been altered. In the beginning a day may have been much longer than it is now.

    Of course now we see the universe is expanding and the earth's rotation is slowing down. This would alter the length of our days and years in the opposite direction, but who knows what events shook things up in the past? Only God.

    I may be a simple minded fool, unable to grasp more advanced concepts of science or unwilling to accept the idea of existence without a creator, but I'm sticking with the Bible. It's all I've got. Let God's word be true, and every man a liar.
  5. B27

    B27 New Member

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    " I believe in a god who reveals himself in the nature of all being....not in a god who concerns himself with the fate and actions of men."
  6. sub-moa

    sub-moa Member

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    I choose not to debate what I consider small issues, but I will submit these two pic's and ask if any can explain how these creatures came to be marked by the face of their natural predators, a owl and a snake. They could have easily looked like a mouse or a flower or anything else. I know God made them this way and he made me the way I am. For that I worship him.

    Attached Files:

  7. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

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    I know the conventional wisdom says that if a butterfly looks like a snake, then snakes will not try to eat it. It lives to pass on these genes to the next generation, while it's cousins without this marking get eaten.
    But conventional wisdom also says this type of change takes eons of time, coming into existance only incrementally.
    My question, then, is this:
    If it takes a thousand years (or billion, whatever) for a regular butterfly to to have a decent looking snakes head on it's wings and thereby escape predation, what about all those EARLIER generations, the ones that only have one single part of the snake design - what was THEIR survival characteristic? What helped THEM with predation? Would snakes actually avoid a butterfly that had a spot on it's wing that would someday look like a nostril?
  8. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

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    God does not want little automatons following him around and saluting.
    He wants people with free will who CHOOSE to follow Him because they love Him.

    Ergo, you are completely free to believe in any sort of god your imagination can muster.
  9. RYANINMICHIGAN

    RYANINMICHIGAN New Member

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    Who’s to say Genesis 1 was God’s first time? Maybe he made the earth and filled it with Dinos and other weird ****. Then sat back and looked at it and said we need to change it. We need something to be in charge of this. And destroyed everything and started a new with us? Why can’t Genesis be the story of the start of us and our Earth?
  10. lilmule

    lilmule New Member

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    Albert Einstein "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.

    One does not eliminate the other, evolution is proven as all things change who is to say god didnt give us and all things that gift,that does not mean we descended from an ape.
    So one can compliment the other and co exist,without demeaning or eliminating the other.
  11. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

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    There are two problems with this:

    If the dino's lived only on a previous earth,why does this earth have their fossils in it?

    If the dino's did not live contemporaneous with man, where did all those dragon legends come from?
  12. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Very true. Evolution merely means a change over time. NO ONE denies that living things change over time; every animal breeder, every farmer, every rancher, every dairyman, etc. knows this is a fact.

    But we did NOT descend from apes, and dogs did not descend from the same ancestor as palm trees, and that is the ridiculous lengths to which the Darwinians descend - and demand that our children are taught this in public schools.

    Living things ADAPT to their environment - which IS evolution - and God most certainly gave living things this this ability.
    BUT evolution has never been shown to cause a new organ or system to develop; the second law of thermodynamics - entropy - forbids this. When a mutation happens in a human being, we have a child born with spinal biffida, we do not have a child born with a second brain so they can calculate like a multi-processor in a computer. We have someone with no legs, we do not have someone with four to give them the speed of a cheetah.
  13. RYANINMICHIGAN

    RYANINMICHIGAN New Member

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    Maybe there were dragons? What if God threw a astroid at the earth to kill everything so he could start over with us?
  14. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

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    There were dragons.
    Might still be.
    But they are called dinosaurs now.

    I am more inclined to believe what God plainly told us in scripture than to speculate about what might have been, nor accept the speculations of atheistic scientists who bend over backwards to try to convince everyone that God does not exist.
    Genesis, you see, has never changed.
    But the scientific explanation for our origins changes every time the accepted theory is proven wrong, which happens repeatedly.

    When I was in high school, we were taught that the earth was a billion years old, and man had existed for a million years.
    Now the earth is - what? 4 billion or so?
    And man has now existed for multiple millions of years.
    Every time an OLDER fossil is found, it becomes necessary to telescope the age of the earth backward to make room for the supposed biogenesis and the evolution of the original single celled organisms into the plethora we see today.