Francotte shotgun

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by jefferson, Aug 25, 2009.

  1. jefferson

    jefferson New Member

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    Hi found you on the Firearms forum. I have a Francotte shotgun of my father's. Trying to find out about it.

    side by side hammer engraved metal looks like it had some gold something on it and seems varnished

    Top of damascus Barrels has: 8601 R Francotte Paris France

    inside on bottom of barrels it has various 4 digit numbers, symbols:

    two crown and af marks

    E L G and a star in a oval

    crown and V very small

    a name: J Arn???

    stock inside has
    crown over MGB (small

    4 digit numbers (2 places)

    Outside on action has Paris France on one side
    A Francotte on the other


    thank you
  2. Hammerslagger

    Hammerslagger New Member

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    First and foremost, DO NOT SHOOT IT; with any ammo. Better safe, than sorry!

    Second the EGL* in a oval shows that it was standard service load Black Powder proofed in Belgium! The "AF" mark could indicate French mfg. other than at St. Etienne.

    The barrels might or might not actually be damascus type steel. Some cheaper guns had solid steel barrels treated to appear damascus. Even if so shooting it is certainly not recommended as safe today based on the sketchy info you have supplied.

    I suggest that you get a digital camera and post some really clear detailed photos of everything (detail) that you can. Then members here can speak from actual knowledge as opposed to guessing.
  3. jefferson

    jefferson New Member

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    No i'm not going to shoot it. I know that much. My Dad was a skeet shooter and I know a bit about guns. He bought this gun at a mall antique sale in 1978 or so.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Aug 25, 2009
  4. jefferson

    jefferson New Member

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  5. Hammerslagger

    Hammerslagger New Member

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    I am having a hard time actually reading the various proof marks. It appears to have both Belgian and French marks. I suspect that it was actually made and proofed in Belgium and imported into France. The little stamp mark that looks like an old graveyard monument is a Belgian Perron in use since 1853.

    From the pics I can not opine if the barrels are fake or real forge welded steel. In any case, I see no evidence of anything but a Black Powder regular proof and opine that it is definately not prudent to fire it with anything today.

    I do not think that it is worth the effort to take more detaild pics of the proof marks. I do not think this shotgun likely has more than "old wall hanger" value today.

    Some other member with more than my very limited knowledge of this type of material, might have a different opinion.
  6. hrf

    hrf Well-Known Member

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  7. robertchambers

    robertchambers New Member

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    This gun is pre-Anson fore-end latch patent as August used the Anson latch mechanism almost exclusively after about 1890...but even more interesting is the gun appears to be a transitional lock-up model. Although the barrels look original, something is strange. The window where the barrel lumps often come completely through the bottom of the frame has been filled...and it's the first side-lever Francotte I've seen...also the hammer faces strike the firing pins at 6 o'clock rather than dead center...Please post photos of the touchmarks and proofmarks that are more detailed...it's important to note that the firm Francotte was a finishing house and didn't forge their own receivers and parts on premises...also, as far as I know, Francotte never circumvented Belgian or foreign patents the way so many others did...this detail will help as you unravel the details of manufacture...more later
  8. jefferson

    jefferson New Member

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    Here is a drawing of the marks [​IMG]

    thanks for your interest and help

    in the first picture there are barely visible numbers in the oval just behind the triggers and between the two screwhwads (towards you)
    seems to be 5584

    jeff
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2009
  9. jefferson

    jefferson New Member

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    here's the drawing

    Attached Files:

  10. jefferson

    jefferson New Member

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    so that's all i'm going to find out?

    are there any sites where i can get more info?

    thank you
  11. Hammerslagger

    Hammerslagger New Member

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    If one follows the link in the quote, and reads all that is available, one will learn much about A. Francotte guns.

    There is not much interest in old Belgian made shotguns in the USA today because Belgium was the 19th. Century shotgun mass production capital of the world. Some high quality USA makers (eg Ithaca, Parker) sometimes used Belgian made barrel stock to make thier SxS double barrel sets out of.
  12. jefferson

    jefferson New Member

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    Any more info from anyone?

    thank you
  13. Danny

    Danny Member

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    :)Francotte is like having a trout instead of a mud cat. Go to BrandX , or any other auction site & look at the price, on these fine weapons. We are talking big dollars here. I have a cased presentation parlor pistol that has been appraised for 10 grand. I will post some pics of this fine 9mm flobert for ya. Anything Francotte is a big seller.
    Kind Regards
    Danny:)
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2010
  14. jefferson

    jefferson New Member

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    Hi

    I am still seeing information about this Francotte shotgun. Some kind of value would be nice to know also. Can anyone help me out?
  15. PeteM

    PeteM New Member

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    Here are all the Belgian proof marks:
    http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html

    The gun is a 12ga with an 18mm bore diameter. It was Black Powder proofed only. I believe the Crown V is a very early controller of proof mark. This proof mark was used from 1853-1877.

    Because of the lever, I am guessing it was made some time after the Jones patent in 1859. By 1876 Francotte had developed his version and patented it in Belgium and England.

    This gun has been abused, at least stored very badly. The value would be rather low. No where what his boxlocks are currently selling for, $900 and up.
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