French MAS 1935 Pistol

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by CountryGunsmith, Mar 2, 2003.

  1. CountryGunsmith

    CountryGunsmith New Member

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    tireman
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    (12/16/02 8:58:02 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del All what kind of pistol is this?
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    namebrand sagem---also has these numbers---A-2175---modele 1935 s and has m1 stamped on the barrell it also says 7.65L caliber---semi auto--co workers dad brought it back from germany he said----any ideas?????

    Bob In St Louis
    *TFF Senior Staff*
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    (12/16/02 9:12:20 am)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: what kind of pistol is this?
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    I don't have any reference material handy here at work, but in general, you have a French-made pistol, Model 1935 S, in the French 32 long caliber.

    Gunrunnerjohn probably will have a lot more detail!

    Xracer
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 3220
    (12/16/02 4:35:56 pm)
    Reply | Edit | Del Re: what kind of pistol is this?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    You have a St. Etienne (MAS) Modele 1935A/1935S Pistol. The pistol generally resembles an M1911 and was chambered for the French 7.65x19.5 round, not particularly powerful, and used only by French forces.

    SAGEM are the initials for the French company the built it.

    If your pistol has a curved butt, it's a Modele 1935A. It if has a straight butt, it's a 1935S.
  2. jim brady

    jim brady Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a 1935S. The 1935A was used as the basis for the excellant SIG P-210. The 7.65 French MAS round is often referred to as 'weak' or otherwise inferior. The round uses a .3085 diameter 86 grain FMJ bullet loaded to 1120 FPS. So power is somewhere near a .380 ACP. Not exact, but much more power than a standard .32 ACP, and less than a standard 115 grain 9mm Luger round.
    I think the references to a 'puny' cartridge is made in comparison to the larger 9mm or the .45 ACP. A standard .32 ACP uses a 71 grain .312 bullet at about 900 or so feet-per-second, while the French bullet is about 15 grains heavier (86 grains) and over 220 feet-per-second faster.
  3. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    The 7.65 French Long has the same cartridge case as the famous Pedersen device of WWI, probably because the French had access to that ammo. But the French ammo won't work in the Pedersen device because the overall length is too long for the magazine.

    Jim
  4. jim brady

    jim brady Well-Known Member

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    I have read that the 7.65 MAS is a direct descendant of the .30 Pedersen. The 7.65 MAS family of pistols really are a great design, and are pretty darn accurate and fun to shoot. I had one when I was a teenager in the 60s, and had loads of fun and adventure in the Mojave Desert with it. Back then ammo was cheap and reliable. Today you need to make your own, but that is easy.

    Those 1935s are just a sleek, functional and well made group of pistols.
  5. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    I have often wondered if the Model 1935A could not be copied in 9mm Parabellum. It is a great handling pistol, with a superb grip, and would not be grossly oversize like most 9mm pistols. (If the 9mm can be put into some of those "compact" pistols, why do we need a huge chunk of gun like the M9?)

    Jim
  6. Bill DeShivs

    Bill DeShivs Well-Known Member

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    Jim K-
    The SIG P 210 was basically an MAS 1935 in 9mm.
  7. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    Hi, Bill,

    It looks that way in pictures, and the system is the same except for the safety, but the 210 is longer, a lot wider, and considerably heavier than the M1935A. Maybe the extra slide mass is necessary, and of course the heavier gun would be easier to shoot, but I still would like to see how a smaller gun would work with 9mm.

    I admit that a smaller gun might not be as durable, but it need not be designed for heavy duty military use to be perfectly adequate for a civilian gun.

    Jim
  8. Gabob

    Gabob Well-Known Member

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    George Nonte in his book Pistolsmithing says that you can make a chamber insert that allows you to shoot .32acp by cutting the proper length of a .30 carbine brass and pushing it to the front of the chamber. This allows the .32acp to headspace on the insert. (helps to flare the front of the insert to make it fit tighter)
  9. jim brady

    jim brady Well-Known Member

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    Gabob - that could work, BUT the rim of the .32 ACP is larger than the 7.65 MAS. It really isn't that hard to make or find brass for the 7.65. Buffalo Arms has it for $44 per 100, and .32 ACP dies can be used. Only special need is an RCBS shell sholder (about $20). The FMJ 93 grain bullets work, as do the Sierra 86 grain RN bullets.

    Just saying there really is no need to shim or insert anything into your pistol to make it useable. One other thing - I would be concerned about that larger .32 ACP rim damaging the extractor or the chamber-loaded indicator.
  10. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    With .32 ACP, the French pistols might not work. I have fired .32 ACP in them, and it is marginal. The French guns are locked breech, recoil operated, and the .32 ACP has both less power and a lighter bullet.

    Jim
  11. wolfen1949

    wolfen1949 New Member

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    I make my own .32 french long ammo. I have a mini lathe cut off 32 S&W long brass cut an extractor grove. I use the 86 gr. soft point bullet and 2.5 grains of bullseye. .32 acp dies work well.
  12. jim brady

    jim brady Well-Known Member

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    Wolfen1949 - checked out both of your posts. Great pictures of those MAS1935As. Mine is just a plane-jane with the black plastic grips. Great shooting pistol - kind of glad more folks have not discovered them. Makes finding inexpensive spare mags easier.

    I also convert .32 S&W Long brass. I did reload those Sierra 86 grain bullets, but they are a little pricey, so now I load the 93 grain FMJ bullets that are available in bulk. Still get about 1075 FPS with Unique powder. Have you chronographed your loads? Curious about the velocities with Bullseye powder.
  13. wolfen1949

    wolfen1949 New Member

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    Thank you Jim, I made them grips my self. The French wolf that is on the one pair was laser ingraved.I have not been able to know the speed of the 86 grain bullet yet. But they zip right along. Both my 1935,s do not like 2.3 grains of bullseye. Slide will not all ways function, maybe I have good springs in mine? I use the Hornaby 86 grain .308 bullet and 90 grain .32 cast bullets sized to .308. I have had no signs of over presure at all . But each gun is different. With surplus guns if one can always a good ideal to put new spring in your gun.
  14. ray48

    ray48 New Member

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    I have a French 1935S pistol. I need the extracter,spring&pin. Any ideas where I can get them? Ray48
  15. ray48

    ray48 New Member

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    Need parts for French1935S. Need extracter,spring&pin.
    ray48
  16. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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  17. ray48

    ray48 New Member

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    I checked with guncorps,no luck. ray48
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