German Drilling Info

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by Baldeagle6, Jun 26, 2011.

  1. Baldeagle6

    Baldeagle6 New Member

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    I have a German drilling, 16 ga. SxS, with 7.8 x 57 rifle barrel underneath. Would appreciate any information that you can provide as to background and value.
    Condition: NRA excellent. 98%+ finish. Dark, almost black blue on barrels. Casehardened engraved lock plates, trigger guard, levers, etc. Ornate engraving. Claw scope mounts. Cocked indicators. Checkering sharp. Stock has professional repair on bottom of butt, which resulted in the rear sling swivel being missing. Also, someone put a Pachmahyr recoil pad on it. Has ivory front sight, Rear sight raises when rifle is selected. Bores excellent. Can't find makers name. Barrels are Krupp Fluss Stahl Essen. SN 29557.

    Proof marks on the rifle barrel are: a crown, St.m.G, N 13 g all on the left under the Krupp markings; on the center of the rifle barrel are a crown and G; in a vertical column to the left are an eagle (I think), another eagle, a crown, an U, 7.8 mm, 57, and 3/27. Both barrels, forward of the breech, have a crown, a S, what looks like an asterik, and an eagle Nitro. The right side of the water table has an eagle, a crown, and an U. The left side has the SN 29557. (SN also on rifle barrel) The barrels both have the following markings; eagle, crown, eagle, S, star, W, star, U, and 16/1.

    Bores are in excellent shape, shiny bright. I thought that the chambers would probably be 2 1/2 or 2 9/16, but they accept a 2 3/4" shell and close with no binding. The action is perfect.Wood is walnut.

    Pictures are attached and I would appreciate any information that you can give me as to the meaning of the various proof marks, the possible background, and a "ball park" estimate of its value. Thanks for reading this.

    Attached Files:

  2. Contenderizer

    Contenderizer New Member

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    I'll do my best on some of the markings, but unfortunately I can't read any of them on the rifled barrel because of glare.

    The 3/27 is likely the date stamp; meaning that this gun was proved in March, 1927. I can't make it out in you photos, but if it only appears once it is almost certainly the date. Often the Germans just run the numbers together; i.e. 1037 would indicate October 1937, but a dot or slash between the month and year is quite common.

    Crown over B or U indicates that the barrel is "proof approved."
    Crown over G indicates a rifled barrel
    Crown over S is smooth-bore (not rifled)
    Crown over W is a choked barrel (though no indication of how much choke is given)

    The 16 withing a circle indicates 16 gauge as does the 16/1. Though I don't know what the "1" signifies it is likely a reference to chamber length, which could be 2-1/2 or 2-3/4 inch. Guessing here: I believe you have 2-3/4 inch chambers as all of the German guns I have (marked as yours is) are 2-3/4.

    Take another look at he 7.8x57 marking as I am unfamiliar with that cal. There is a 7.9x57 (which we know as the 8mm Mauser). There is also a 7x57 Mauser.

    The St m G indicates that the rifled barrel was proved with Stahlmantel Geschoss (steel jacketed bullet). The N 13 is the nitro (smokeless powder) charge that was used.

    While most gun values have risen post-Obama, values on drilling's (in my opinion) have only held there own. Perhaps because they were too high to start with. Also, I have heard from several auction houses that hammered drilling's (which yours is not) have actually fallen in value. Without a makers name, I suggest a range from $2,500 to $3,500 for yours.
  3. Baldeagle6

    Baldeagle6 New Member

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    I really appreciate the information. You are very thorough. As for the markings on the rifle barrel, the only ones are those that I indicated in my post.

    I am at a loss as to the caliber 7.8 x 57 also. My guess would be 8 x 57, and just measured in the lands, like a .357 for a .38. However, I am not sure and reluctant to fire it until I know more.

    After a couple of military tours in Germany, plus a lot of time spent there in NATO/Northag conferences while I was in III (US) Corps, I have been very interested in drillings and fine European shotguns. I also have a "Hebsacker", aka,"Hege", 12 ga over under that I got in '68. It was made by Antonio Zoli for a gun dealer in Schwabish Hall, (named Hebsacker) and sold through the US Forces Rod and Gun Clubs. It has the European type oiled walnut stock, double triggers, and engraving on the bare steel lock plates, etc.

    I notice that you are a Contender fan. So am I. I use a 7mm Waters here in Texas for whitetail, hogs, rams, etc. Killed a couple of turkeys with it too. Have several other barrels, but don't seem to use them much anymore.

    Thanks again for the information.
  4. Contenderizer

    Contenderizer New Member

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    Thank you for your service to our country.
  5. Baldeagle6

    Baldeagle6 New Member

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    Thanks for the recognition!

    "Freedom is not free!, It was bought and paid for with the blood, sweat, and tears of our military since 1776. Pray for our service personnel as we celebrate our Country's birthday.

    God bless America!
  6. GuildGun6

    GuildGun6 New Member

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    I have been reading posts on the site, I have a german Krieghoff Drilling made in 1927. On the barrels underside it states 7.8 mm x 57. Everyone tells me it is a 7.57? Any info from anyone available? Also looking for info on gold engraving on trigger guard which has M.I.J.S. Rita written there. Evidently this was a specially made gun at factory. It is 111 numbers prior to the one made for Hermann Goering in 1934.
  7. GuildGun6

    GuildGun6 New Member

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    Being of German Heritage I was fascinated with the beauty of this gun. I will post pictures so that anyone who wants to see it will enjoy them.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 22, 2013
  8. sharps4590

    sharps4590 Active Member

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    Guild, smart money has your drilling at 8 X 57R. It is not a 7 X 57R, I can assure you. As per the posts above yours about the other drilling, 13g is the bullet weight which is basically a 200 grain bullet. I can promise you they did not proof the barrel with 200 grains of Schultze powder. The "N" is definitely Nitro proofed. Other than that Contenderizer is correct. I do believe that since those posts in 2011 the prices of drillings, combination guns and other German firearms has rebounded some. At least it seems to when it's something I want to buy!!!!
  9. GuildGun6

    GuildGun6 New Member

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    My barrel and tang say 7.8mm not 7mm or 8mm. I was told that is a 7.57mm?
  10. Bindernut

    Bindernut Well-Known Member

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    7.8x57R is another designation for 8x57JR (J denotes it's the .318" version of the 8x57, not the newer .323" version). Typically, a .323 bore version from the same region would be marked as 7.9x57.
    I will venture if you slug the bore you'll find it's .318".
    It most definitely is not a 7mm bore if it's stamped as 7.8mm

    The smaller J bore was used in sporting rifles long after it was discontinued by the military and it is fairly common to see pre-WWII sporters in the smaller bore.

    I'd definitely love to see more pics of your drilling. Beautiful guns!
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2013
  11. sharps4590

    sharps4590 Active Member

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    Unless it's been rebarreled, (exceedingly, highly unlikely, almost positively not done), you were told wrong. There are way too many out there who think they know about German firearms and all they end up doing is misinforming folks....such as you have been.

    Krieghoff is still very much in business. They can be contacted and I expect for a fee the history of your drilling up to the time it left the factory can be learned, providing the records for your firearm survived the war. Some did, some didn't.

    Binder...I'm just about positive the IS bore, (it is an I for "Infanterie", German for Infantry, not a J as we post it here in the states), was changed from .318 to .323 about 1905. Sporting arms followed closely thereafter. I wouldn't dare say that no .318 bore sporting rifles were made after WWI but my experience is the opposite of yours. I've not seen a between war German rifle marked 7.8 or 7.9 that slugged .318. The bullet was also considerably redesigned into a spitzer which is what the "S" stands for, (Spitzgescho....my board doesn't have the last German letter) and it was lightened to about 155 grains. Also, when one takes into consideration that the German Normalization Law of 1912, (My English translation of what it was), established the 8 X 57I as .318 and the 8 X 57 IS at .323 in 1913 it reduces the odds even more of a .318 (I) bore being made between the wars. Not that it didn't happen....as convoluted as the German firearms industry was back then anything is possible and both the I and IS bores are listed. I'm just saying it was unlikely or very uncommonly done.

    I have all this info and then some in my books but this is so much easier than typing it all out.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.92x57mm_Mauser
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2013
  12. sharps4590

    sharps4590 Active Member

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    Binder....you know how something you say or write can make you start wondering, no matter how certain you are? I'm going to have to eat some crow and stand corrected. Look what I found on the GGCA site. See the 5th post down by my friend Mike.

    http://www.germanguns.com/upload/showthread.php?829-Drilling

    We don't know if the gentleman has slugged the bore yet but here may be proof positive of the .318 bore between the wars.
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