German Rook Rifle - JP Sauer?

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by 9 fingers, Dec 30, 2010.

  1. 9 fingers

    9 fingers New Member

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    Hi, I hope you can help me with some history and value of this rifle I got myself for Christmas. I was told it was made by JP Sauer, probably between the 2 world wars, but another has told me he believes it was made before 1920. It is about 5.25 lbs with scope, 40.5" long with a 24.5" Octagonal barrel with "Bohler Rasant" on it, which my research indicates very high quality Austrian steel. There are various proof marks including "NP", .680, STIF8, and another that I can not make out. It was resleaved and rechambered in Germany by a skilled gunsmith, I am told, in WMR, one of the reasons I wanted it, besides I thought it was very good looking. The forestock is not original and the checkering does not match the rear but it was nicely made and fits well. There is a 3" chunk that was broken out of the rear stock, left side near the tang but the repair is decent. The action is tight and it shoots superbly with 3/4" groups my 1st try, with a 4x scope at 50 yards. I do not know what the lever is on the left side but it scratches the bluing. Perhps it is a safety? Obvioulsy the rifle was drilled for a scope mount and has a rare Hertel & Reuss Optik Kassel and is a Macro Ziel 4x36-l81 with German post reticle. It is very clear and took me a while to zero as both windage and elevation are in the top turret. I am guessing the right turret focuses the reticle but it was cold when I tried it (in the 30's) and my time to shoot was short. Oh, and the gold double set trigger has a small set screw in between that I assume sets the trigger pull. Right now the front trigger breaks at about 4 oz. I am guessing after the rear is set. And it does not fully eject the spent cartridge but going to have my gunsmith look at that. It is probably tricky to place a value on it due to the resleaving as a 22 wmr and due to other non original mods but it is a slick gun and I love it nonetheless. I paid $400 for it and $65 for the scope. Did I do OK and can anyone enlighten me as to the history of this rifle and scope? Thanks and Happy New Year to all!
    9 fingers
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    Last edited: Dec 31, 2010
  2. 300 H&H

    300 H&H Active Member

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    This is some what a shot in the dark, but as you say it would be hard to value due to the modifications it has had. You will have to find someone who wants this type of rifle... The scope is another item. I feel that a fair amount for this rifle would fall in the $3-400 range, with another $500 for the scope and mount, if you put it up on an auction site. So I am thinking 7-800 for the pair. to bad the fore end is such a poor match to the rest of the rifle. I think this hurts it as much as the resleeved barrel. Were I trying to sell it, might entertain a try out period for the buyer to shoot the rifle before he buys it. (the 22 mag has a bore dia. of .224, where a 22lr has a bore dia. of .223) Might get some one interested at a rifle range if your are shooting groups for instance.......it could happen, as this is a pretty neat rifle that would appeal to some folks.

    Hope this helps,
    Kirk
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2010
  3. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    The Hertel & Reuss scope is post-WWII, probably from around 1960, so I suspect the rifle was repaired and the scope mounted at about that time. The rifle could be Sauer, but that company almost always marked their guns, so if there is no name it probably is not Sauer. The fore-end is, quite honestly, not of the quality of the rest of the gun and may even have been made in the U.S. The scope rings look American.

    The NP proof mark sounds like an English proof, not German; pictures of the proof marks might help narrow down at least the origin of the rifle.

    Jim
  4. 300 H&H

    300 H&H Active Member

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    Just checked on the scope, and $500 is too much. But it has a rail on the bottom that my guess is for a claw mount base to be mated with. Maybe I am wrong, but I think there is a small market for this amoung those who collect european sporting rifles/combination guns. Maybe $250 for the scope, if it isn't marred up.

    Regards, Kirk
  5. 9 fingers

    9 fingers New Member

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    OK, posted some close up shots of the proof marks in my 1st posting. When I removed the forearm to see the Bohler Rasant inscription I found the "Einschubuauf" marking, which I think kills the British gun theory (which I was starting to think was likely as this gun was originally paired with a Lancaster, a Greener Martini, but also an Anschutz, by the original owner). Can anyone provide any further information or point me in the right direction for further research? Thank you very much for the info so far. I have no intention of selling this one as I think it is way too cool and it is fun to shoot.
    I am toying with the idea of having another forened made with matching checkering. This one is too thin to sand and re-checker, my 1st idea.
    9 fingers
  6. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    That NP proof mark is Austrian; the F indicates the proof house at Ferlach. Einschublauf translates as something like "insertion barrel"; I think that means a sleeved barrel, as you indicated. If the barrel was sleeved, it had to be proved after that was done, and since the proof is Austrian, I would think the work was done in Austria, not Germany.

    HTH

    Jim
  7. 9 fingers

    9 fingers New Member

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    Thanks Jim, learning a more about this thing every day. I jiust added one more pic that I failed to post before, some numbers found on the bottom of the barrel. Any idea what the birdlike (eagle?) proof found under or to the left of the NPf proof indicates? I think I have seen it before but I admit to not paying too much attention to these things in the past as I never expected to own an older European gun or anyting like this. Thanks for all your help. Happy New Year!
    9 fingers
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