German SA Dagger

Discussion in 'Knives & Edged Items' started by YosemiteHam, Nov 23, 2010.

  1. YosemiteHam

    YosemiteHam New Member

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    Hopefully somebody can help me out identifying if this knife is real and the value. There is a M stamped on the back of the handle and there is some kind of logo on the bottom of the blade but it is getting worn off. It says Alles Fur Deustchland on the blade.

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  2. Bill DeShivs

    Bill DeShivs Well-Known Member

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    The "logo" is the most important part. Need a good picture of it.
  3. YosemiteHam

    YosemiteHam New Member

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    Here are some pictures of the worn logo, it's taken from my phone but hopefully they'll work.

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  4. Bill DeShivs

    Bill DeShivs Well-Known Member

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    The marking on the BLADE, after Deutschland.
  5. YosemiteHam

    YosemiteHam New Member

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    I'm not exactly sure if there is a marking after Deutschland or not. I've done some research on the blade and found that they put the makers mark on the opposite side of the blade. I found a picture on the internet of what I think it is. It says E.P.&S. Solingen and has an etching of someone, I believe to be, thrusting a knife downward. I attached a picture of the etching i found, and some closer pictures of the markings.

    Attached Files:

  6. Bill DeShivs

    Bill DeShivs Well-Known Member

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    Either that is a rust spot, or the maker's mark was defaced. I doubt it is the mark you pictured, though. Further than that, I can't help. There were more of these made after WW2 than during, and all the later ones are parts knives, or fakes.
  7. 22shot

    22shot New Member

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    Here's my 2 cents..

    I believe you have an "authentic" dagger.

    I don't know who it was issued to; but that red crest on the wooden hilt will identify that.

    It is not a "millitary" dress issue; but a "political" one; carried by some official or orginization; Again; the red crest will tell the story.

    As for the maker's mark; it may have been obliberated by some pissed off person; lot of that was going around. (this mark was were the grind marks are on your blade)

    The blade inscription reads "Everything for Germany".

    I've attached pics of a junior officer's dress dagger; pigskin leather; silver trim; and a pic of the makers mark (same area as where yours should be.) on the blade for you to ponder.

    It's pretty beat up; but I am intimate with it's history.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 25, 2010
  8. stede

    stede Member

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    22shot, you have a DLV or NSFK dagger- a pic of the emblem(s) on the top of the scabbard throat will clarify which. The DLV (German Sport Flying Organization) became the NSFK (National Socialist Flying Corps) when the Third Reich dropped the pretense of not re-building their Air Force ;).
    Yosemite, I agree with 22shot that your SA dagger is authentic but it does have some condition issues- the blade in particular has been thoroughly scrubbed and the maker's logo almost completely obliterated. The only way to ascertain value would be to offer it on one of the dagger sites and see what it brings... the maker's logo E.P.&S. is Ernst Pack and Sohn- that figure is actually a blacksmith swinging a large hammer which is poised over his back.
    If you look, the M on the crossguard is actually Mi- this is the unit mark for the SA Gruppe Mitte (there were 27 groups).
  9. 22shot

    22shot New Member

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    stede

    Thank you for your spot on recognition!

    The dagger is indeed a NSFK.

    The insignia is a swastika over a 2 bladed propeller; superinposed on a pair of wings on a circle.

    The photo isn't the best; but it shows this ( part of the throat opening cuts into the insigna).

    Any info on the maker? (the ballon pedler)

    Thanks.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 28, 2010
  10. stede

    stede Member

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    22shot, I do believe that's the earlier DLV stamp...
    Your pic is a bit blurred but Gebruder Heller (?) is a known maker of this pattern. The 'ballon peddler' logo is a new one to me- but as you know these firms often used multiple different logos on the blades they sold commercially.
    Not a pristine piece but it has that 'been there' look to it!
  11. 22shot

    22shot New Member

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    Thanks stede!

    Iv'e been trying to I D that peddler for years!

    And, yes; the dagger has "been" there; it has quite a history; and your response was another peice of a complex puzzle...

    I appologize, YosemiteHam...didn't want to hijac your thread!
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2010
  12. YosemiteHam

    YosemiteHam New Member

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    No worries 22shot. And thanks for the info stede. Could you recommend a good dagger website?
  13. stede

    stede Member

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    germandaggers.com. Probably the best site in the world for info/buying/selling. Let us know how it goes, eh?
  14. YosemiteHam

    YosemiteHam New Member

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    For sure, thanks for the website, its great.
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