So, I bought an Enfield, circa 1916, sight unseen from *********. I get the rifle and it is everything that he said it was. There's a patina on the external metal parts, the wood is in a better-than-most condition save a arsenal stock repair his old eyes did not notice, and the bore is mirror shiny. But the rifling is just wore the hell out and is degraded and ever so slightly pitted at the muzzle for about a half inch back. I took it to the range, and I did notice that it forced my head at a slightly peculiar angle and this is my first Enfield, so I am sure its accuracy problems are at least partly my fault. But the best I could achieve was about a five inch group at 50 yards, at four to five inches north / northeast of center mass. At 100 yards there was no point trying to measure the group it was all over the freaking place, including off target. I cannot for the life of me find a new barrel for it, reproduction or otherwise, so I am stuck looking for A. a dog of a gun with a good bore cannibalize the barrel and resell the rest, or B. trying to find a solution to make the gun shoot more accurately. One idea I had was to have it counter bored to fix the muzzle issue and then chrome lined to try and get some of the rifling back. That would make it easier to clean in the future, and I figure would probably be cheaper than a rebarrel or having a custom barrel made, But the rifling is just so far gone that unless it was a respectively thick coating, I'm not sure it would make any difference. Also, at some point, I do worry about the value of the gun. It has been refinished so the value aspect is a little more negligible...but still it is a WWI gun in pretty awesome shape. What do you guys think? Is there another relatively practical option?
Also, is a No4 MKI barrel compatible with the No1 MKIII, with or without modification? There are some NO4 MKI Criterion barrels floating around, as well as some P14 barrels.
Took me 4 years to find this one, it is the exact year I wanted and everything. I don't really want to modify the barrel but it is an option. Really, though, I'd rather re-barrel and I'd keep the original barrel so I'd have the option to restore it to its original config. I just like accurate rifles. No I don't expect 1 MOA from an old military gun like this, but I still expect to be able to find center mass +/- 3" to 4.5" at 100 yards. But I'd rather change the barrel completely than muck with the original. I just wanted to get people's opinions, that is all. I've put a couple of feelers out to the world, and I guess we will see what comes back. I might just sell it and get another one, but they are so hard to find not all bubbafied, especially around here. It took me four years to find one I thought was worth bidding on, so forgive me if I seam a little...clingy...to this one.
Also, I need to slug the bore and try other ammo as well. All I have tried is PPU, maybe if I try a .312 or .314 bullet it will shoot better, though I still have to worry about that muzzle...but if all I have to do is pend more on ammo and counter-bore it, maybe that will be the best thing for this rifle.
Numrich out of New York used to sell barrels for the Enfield. Don't know if they still do or not. Another source is Saarco out of New Jersey. I also have a 1916 No1 Mk III. My barrel was frosted really bad, so I bought some of the 'barrel lapping bullets' from Brownells. Those worked great and much improved the barrel.
These rifles are supposed to be very accurate (for issue service rifles). You didn't say what ammo you are using. I reload with either .313 FMJ bullets, or simply pull down old British ball ammo and use those bullets charged with BLC (2) powder in new boxer cases to duplicate military MK7 ammo. Bad thing is that I do the same with old German 8X57 ball ammo, but at least I can use both the bullets and the old powder round-for-round, but the British ammo is loaded with cordite so I can only use the bullets and not the powder.
For what ever reason, those old British rifles don't command all that much in value. Again, as far as your accuracy, I've never been much impressed with any of the modern hunting ammo on the market. If you decide to reload to get better accuracy, one thing I suggest is to only neck-size your cases VS. full length sizing. The chambers on these rifles are very 'loose', and if you full length size your fired cases you can expect 2 or 3 reloads per case - tops. If you neck size them they will last much longer. You will experience case separation if you full length size on the 3rd or 4th reload. A great tool to keep in the rifle's butt trap is a stuck case extractor.
$610. for a new barrel? Wow I didn't think they were that expencive.
For that kind of money, I'd buy a lathe from Harbour Freight and a cheap 303 blank and make my own barrel.
You'd learn a lot about barrel threading , headspace and conturing.. Plus you could buy some real junkers and turn them into fine shooters.
You really don't need a real fancy lathe, just something that can cut both standard and metric threads.
Being a gunsmith I have used several different makes and brands and my favorite is a 1955 Atlas lathe.
You will have to learn the basics which is rather simple and the more you get into it the more you will want to learn.
I don't know how many barrels I have replaced on rifles , only that it is a lot.
With a lathe you can make your own barrel wrench and barrel vice.(saving money ect.)
Maybe give it some thought. Lathe work and rebarreling is not for everyone. Those of us who still do it get great satisfaction from doing a good job.
Before going out and spending your hard earned money on a lathe, ask questions about what type other gunsmiths are using and why they prefer one brand/make over another.
You'll need more than a lathe to make a barrel from a solid bar of steel, it takes some specialized tooling to get it done and some of it you'd have to shop build because it isn't something you can just go to a supplier to buy off the shelf but you could turn out some nicely profiled barrels from unturned barrel blanks with a decent one.
In school we had an old 1850s hand drawn bore scraper for cutting barrel rifling. I actually made a 32cal barrel on it. It turned out ok. Not great and not bad just ok. I think it took me about twenty hours to cut the rifling .
You guys are either kidding or way-the-heck out there. Not too many years ago I saw an ad in Shotgun News for an action vice and barrel removal tool for about $65 to fit a Number 1 Mark III. Again - I seem to recall that it was Sarco Inc. Not that a re-barrel job like this is something I'd advise anyone other than a professional gunsmith do - just saying that I don't see any reason why you can't put another surplus barrel on that rifle for well under $200. Still a lot of money (in my opinion) to put into it - but it is do-able.
As far as the 'collector value' of this particular rifle - I'd be thinking $200 tops. Ten years ago Big 5 Sporting goods were selling Enfield rifles for $100 each. The Number 1 Mark IIIs are just not that valuable of rifle. Now if it were a pristine 98k Mauser or an un-touched Arasaka it would be worth more. They used to sell those Enfields for $15 - your choice of any of a hundred from wooden barrels. Five dollars would get you a bayonet and scabbard to boot. Six hundred dollars for a barrel? I think somebody is pulling somebody's leg. If it were the personal rifle of King George, maybe. To contemplate MAKING a barrel?
I don't think anyone is actually contemplating making a barrel. Only mentioning that it can be done.
Even up here in Canada a used 303 barrel in exelent condition is nearly impossible to get.
As you say, at one time you could get any 303 brit rifle for only a few bucks. Not today unless you want a buba job. The last local action I was at the average 303 in full military configuration went for between $400-$600.
Buba jobs went for around $100-$150.
Looks like I better start scraping pennies. At least buying a new barrel I know what I am getting rather than buying sight unseen off of pictures and people's 'integrity'. I'll keep an eye for a bubba with a really nice bore...but even bubba's are hard to find in these parts.
Unless you absolutely have to have a WW1 dated rifle, why don't you consider looking for an Ishapore (Indian) or Lithgow (Australian) Enfield No.1 MkIII. Both remained in production until fairly recently, and it's not uncommon to find them with darn near pristine bores. Finding a WW1 dated bubba will still mean the very real possibility of an oversized chamber even if the rifling looks good. Just trying to help.
I'd put an ishapore barrel on it. The lithglows, for whatever reason, are going for twice what I paid for this one. About $200 more than the rebarrel v
Would cost.
I think it kinda depends on what you are looking to do, rebarrel the gun and the original collector value is gone. As a shooter, the options get limited to the above and/or something like ER Shaw or a criterion barrel if you can find one.
Have you used a copper solvent in the bore? I have stripped an amazing amount of fouling from surplus rifles and found the bore to be better than originally thought. Electrolysis may be a second option, but I have no experience with this for bores. Slug the bore and maybe you could get better accuracy with cast bullets or since the year of production is what you wanted, just hang on to it as is and buy another to shoot.
I think it kinda depends on what you are looking to do, rebarrel the gun and the original collector value is gone. As a shooter, the options get limited to the above and/or something like ER Shaw or a criterion barrel if you can find one.
Have you used a copper solvent in the bore? I have stripped an amazing amount of fouling from surplus rifles and found the bore to be better than originally thought. Electrolysis may be a second option, but I have no experience with this for bores. Slug the bore and maybe you could get better accuracy with cast bullets or since the year of production is what you wanted, just hang on to it as is and buy another to shoot.
I want the gun to be accurate. Inaccurate guns aren't worth much to me, as anything I own I shoot, save one rifle that is technically my wife's that she inherited from her late Grandfather... Sentimentality trumps all there. (I am still thinking on how I can get that rifle shooting accurately again, but one project at a time.)
Now that I have brain juices moving, though, I do know where there is a bubba'd US PROPERTY marked Enfield...The barrel is cut down an inch, but maybe I could thread it and tool/crown a piece of bar stock onto the end to get the length and appearance back....I'll have to go look at the barrel again, and I'd love to put a 30-30, or 30-40 krag barrel on the US PROPERTY receiver....could be interesting.
I do not see how the value is lost so long as I maintain the original barrel in a condition where I can put it back on.
Guess I've been out-of-the-loop a long time. I'd maybe have dropped my jaw (and changed my drawers) if someone offered me $400 for my .303! Collectable No1 Mk IIIs? Who'd have thunk it.
Maybe now I'd re-consider my advice. It the barrel looks good except for some minor pitting near the muzzle, and seeing now that these things are getting worth some serious money, slug the bore. If it measures out at .315 or more, it may not be worth going any farther with the barrel. A .312, .313 or even a .314 should work pretty well in a .303.
The grooves in every .303 I've ever had were pretty deep. If the bore is a little frosted (like mine was), the bore lapping kit will polish it up, and long as you follow the directions, you will only remove a small fraction of surface. Whether it is a good idea depends again on what the bore measures out at.
I really like The Collector's idea of the Ishapore barrel. Swap out the original barrel and keep the old one oiled up and put away. The dimensions of the Ishapores are supposed to match the original British made SMLEs, and because they are newer and less likely to have been abused (like ours were) and also fired with more modern ammunition, I'm pretty sure you will find a very shootable surplus barrel.
$400 for a British .303? Dang, I thought I was taking advantage of one of our members (accident) when I sold him one for $300 at the Georgia BBQ this year.
Criterion wrote me back and so did Ace Systems. Ace recommended me to this guy in SC who specializes in British surplus firearms. We'll see what he says as I just sent him an email. Criterion said that the P14 barrel will not work, however, sometime next year they will be selling No1 MKIII barrel replacements and they give veterans a 15% discount when ordering direct. Maybe it will be a relatively affordable venture after all.
If you are willing to give that old darling another try:
Windage (that was the 'north-east' reference, was it not?) is corrected by removing the front sight protector (big screw on the left side, I think) and drifting the front toward the bullet strikes.
It is supposed to strike high ('north'?) at 50 yards. The battle sight zero takes advantage of the trajectory of the round. A bit of practice and familiarization can't hurt your groups, either.
If you're a reloader, slug the bore and perhaps use bullets a trifle wider to 'fit' the worn barrel. For that matter, clean the bore well. Even shiny, it can be hiding a bunch of 'gunk' (that's a technical term). And no, they aren't target rifles.
If you are willing to give that old darling another try:
Windage (that was the 'north-east' reference, was it not?) is corrected by removing the front sight protector (big screw on the left side, I think) and drifting the front toward the bullet strikes.
It is supposed to strike high ('north'?) at 50 yards. The battle sight zero takes advantage of the trajectory of the round. A bit of practice and familiarization can't hurt your groups, either.
If you're a reloader, slug the bore and perhaps use bullets a trifle wider to 'fit' the worn barrel. For that matter, clean the bore well. Even shiny, it can be hiding a bunch of 'gunk' (that's a technical term). And no, they aren't target rifles.
I never expected target rifle accuracy. I was hoping for 4 inches at 100 yards. I'm getting 5 inches at 50 yards. I received some advice that the PPU ammo I was trying is boat tail and that some of the earlier Enfields with worn barrels will do better with flat based projectiles. So what I am planning to do is bring my bench rest with me next time I go and try the PPU again to see more accurately where it is shooting and I'll reload both boxes with flat based bullets and try again.
But in any case, the idea of a barrel change is becoming more and more appealing to me. The idea of having an Enfield that is much closer to a target rifle is and idea that I do like alot and before running into this issue I had planned on shooting he Enfield A LOT. Like...every range trip.
Since you want to keep it in "return to original" condition, you may want to start looking at the fit of the stock. If it is like some I have seen, the wood may be soaked in cosmoline and soft at the wrist socket or loose and needs tightening. The forearm may be contacting the barrel Ir-regularly and not helping accuracy, there is on line info for accurizing these rifles. The headspace will likely need adjustment if you re barrel the gun, start looking at your options there.
30-40would be a fun caliber for that rifle, maybe look at ER Shaw and price the job.
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