Grampa's Double Rifle

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by sure416, Aug 1, 2010.

  1. sure416

    sure416 New Member

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    Location:
    God's country, Colorado
    I received this exquisite rifle from my Grampa Sam's collection. He was a well known S.D. gunsmith in the '50s. I know the ballpark value range is $4-10K but would also like to know more about its history from the identifying marks (attached pics) and the following information that I have gathered.
    (Brief double rifle expert eval)
    1. Rifling/barrels are in good condition and have not been re-blued.
    (Did not say the % remaining bluing)
    2. Except for minor repairs on butt, rifle appears to be in original condition.
    3. It's a .416 Caliber, a dangerous game rifle (without scope most likely used
    for elephant).
    4. Has trigger use pop-up pins
    5. G. SCHAFER was probably an individual gun maker that purchased parts
    from the larger manufacturing guilds.
    Engraving:
    L side plate: "G. SCHAFER" "HOTBUCHSENMACHER" (Gun Maker)
    R side plate: "IN TUBINGEN" (A German town in Black Forest area).

    Barrel underside:
    "1903" (Q: Was the .416 Caliber being made prior to John Rigby's introduction in 1912?)
    Proofmark (Q. Who's proofmark?) & Crown over "G" (rifled)
    Letters "Jh", "K" & inverted "B" (Q. What do these mean?)

    Serial No: "22270" near action

    Foremarn Hold (fractured) "273"

    Thanks Loads for any information you can provide!
    sure416 003.jpg

    sure416 001.jpg

    sure416 002.jpg
  2. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    wow. that is a damn nice double. love and cherish that thing my friend. your Grampa sam obviously loved it. Wouldnt shoot it though, unless youre a glutton for pain;)
  3. Texman

    Texman New Member

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    yep,dang neat gift, and they will kill and elephant IF you can get him to shoot it!! :)
  4. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    what do they say... a 140 pound hunter shooting a 14 pound rifle firing a 1400 gr bullet at 1400 fps at a 14 ton elephant... which ever one gets up first is declared the winner:)
  5. muddober

    muddober Active Member

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    What a very nice rifle you have but I very much doubt it is chambered for 416 Rigby because the Rigby is a rimless case and while there are some modern double rifles in 416 they have little spring loaded buttons in the extractors to grab the case and your gun is devoid of those. If you don't have a 416 Rigby case PM me and I will send you one at no charge to check fit, as I am 99% sure it won't.

    Ron
  6. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    the rigby is rimless. the chamber is clearly cut for a rimmed cartridge. The only .416 rimmed cartridge I can find anything on is the 500/416 NE. and its not 100+ years old...
  7. sure416

    sure416 New Member

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    Yes...think this is the rifle my great uncle used to shoot the elephant...it will remain in the family but I doubt if anyone will have the guts to do that again...have a great day!
  8. sure416

    sure416 New Member

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    JLA...thanks for the feedback...think in my case the elephant would be the winner. Yes, the rifle is staying in the family to help carry on Gampa's legacy. Previously, I spoke with Geoff Miller, head of the J. Rigby Co. and through pics he confirmed my rifle is not a Rigby, although a family member insisted it was. Based on the bore diameter (.418-
    .422), however, Geoff thinks it's a .416 caliber...perhaps rechambered in the '20s. Thats why I think the markings on the barrels are the key to solving the mystery...hope...hope...that 1903 mark has got me puzzled. Onward research..fun stuff
  9. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

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    I would do a chamber cast with cerrosafe and compare it to cartridges of the world. It is probably chambered in an obscure wildcat based on the straightwall .45 basic black powder case, A good exapmple of the potential parent case would be a .45-110 or .45-120. Those are definitely old enough and if necked down and loaded with a 400 gr cast bullet over a case full of cordite would certainly rearrange an elephants thought process.
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