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Guns Made Of Aluminum?

28K views 54 replies 15 participants last post by  Double D 
#1 ·
I know that we are all looking for a lighter and more functional weapon for Concealed Carry. But how do the revolvers and pistols made of aluminum stack up against the tried and true blue steel?
 
#2 ·
It's only the frame that is made of polymer, or aluminum. The barrel, and slides are all made of steel.
 
#4 ·
Not so. My 642 Smith and Wesson has an aluminum frame and a stainless steel barrel and cylinder. It is rated for +P 38s. S&W "Airweight" (that's what they call their aluminum framed guns) 38s have been +P-rated for many years.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Is yours as beat up from carrying as mine is? "Battlescarred", that's the term I wanted. :)



That, by the way, is why you use a pocket holster and don't carry keys and change and pocketknives and things like that there in the same pocket. :D

 
#7 ·
I carry mine in a Crossbreed super tuck. She has some scars on the frame and barrel from being drawn in and out. I don't pocket carry mine, I drives me nuts having it bounce off my leg when walking. I carried it once in the same coat pocket as my cell phone, cell phone lost that battle ;)
 
#9 ·
Rhuga:

One of the longest serving handgun for the US Military forces (about 25 years so far) is the Beretta Model 92. This gun has an aluminum frame with a steel slide as do most semi-auto "aluminum" guns.

There is aluminum and then there is aluminum. There are many, many alloys of aluminum that give it better durability and strength than pure aluminum. Some match or exceed the strength of some steel alloys. Those aluminum alloys make having "aluminum" guns possible. They are much better choice than the "plastic" guns so popular today.

Several of the really light carry guns use titanium which is lighter than steel and of equivalent strength. It is amazing what the use of modern alloys of metals can do in gun designs.

LDBennett
 
#10 · (Edited)
Titanium is 70% of the weight of steel and roughly 3x stronger with regard to tensile strength and modulus of rupture - but it typically costs 3 to 5 times more due to the refining process from TiO2 ores. Aluminum alloys have shown remarkable strength values over the years and some do approach the strength of carbon steel, but aluminum does have a tendency to "flow" over long periods (exceeds the life time of most modern firearms.) Just for info: there are brass alloys which contain certain amounts (usually less the a percent or two by weight) that contain aluminum. Getting the aluminum to alloy with the Copper and Zinc (and sometimes Lead) bath is a technological secret for those companies that produce that family. In fact, the alloying of all those metals with dissimilar melting points and insuring proper compositional proportions at the end is a real art in itself.
 
#11 ·
All interesting, but my thinking is that a light weight carry gun would not normally be subjected to endurance tests of thousands of rounds. Will light weight alloys stand up to firing as long as steel? In my limited experience the answer is no. But how many people are going to fire such a gun 10,000 rounds just to see if they can destroy it? Those guns will hold up fine to the amount of firing they will commonly be subjected to.

Jim
 
#12 ·
All interesting, but my thinking is that a light weight carry gun would not normally be subjected to endurance tests of thousands of rounds. Will light weight alloys stand up to firing as long as steel? In my limited experience the answer is no. But how many people are going to fire such a gun 10,000 rounds just to see if they can destroy it? Those guns will hold up fine to the amount of firing they will commonly be subjected to.

Jim
I put 30k through two P226 9mm pistols. Both showed signs of a good amount of wear. I had one rebuilt by SIG but it was never like new again. I destroyed two Taurus beer can frame pistols in less than 4k shot apiece.

I put 250,000+ rounds through a single G17 and the frame was like new when I sold it. She is still kickin for the guy I Sold it too. I have owned more than enough beer can frame guns to know they are nowhere near as durable as quality polymer frame pistols. All my current polymer pistols are well over 10k and some twice that. They have nowhere near the wear an alloy frame would have with them many rounds.

Beer cans make great light carry gun frames, but poly is lighter yet and far more durable.I currently own zero beer can frame pistols. Steel or polymer only for this guy.....
 
#13 ·
I put 30k through two P226 9mm pistols. Both showed signs of a good amount of wear. I had one rebuilt by SIG but it was never like new again. I destroyed two Taurus beer can frame pistols in less than 4k shot apiece.

I put 250,000+ rounds through a single G17 and the frame was like new when I sold it. She is still kickin for the guy I Sold it too. I have owned more than enough beer can frame guns to know they are nowhere near as durable as quality polymer frame pistols. All my current polymer pistols are well over 10k and some twice that. They have nowhere near the wear an alloy frame would have with them many rounds.

Beer cans make great light carry gun frames, but poly is lighter yet and far more durable.I currently own zero beer can frame pistols. Steel or polymer only for this guy.....
You have fired over 280,000 rounds?! You are indeed an "army of one", my friend. But I think you make a better case for plastic than for steel; I cannot imagine a steel-frame 9mm lasting that long either. Haven't IPSC shooters shot .45 ACP and 38 Super 1911's to failure?
 
#14 ·
Well since Rhuga asked about carry guns, I could care less if it could stand up to thousands of rounds of use, so putting that up as requirment is moot.

Both of my Kimber ultras have been shot often, but mostly they are carried. They are aluminum framed and .45 btw. I shoot them two or three times a year. I shoot my other 1911s for sport and fun, the Kimber have one purpose, operate when I need them too, which they do very well and I'm sure will continue to for years to come. At least for the rest of my life, after that, I really don't care.
 
#15 ·
You have fired over 280,000 rounds?! You are indeed an "army of one", my friend. But I think you make a better case for plastic than for steel; I cannot imagine a steel-frame 9mm lasting that long either. Haven't IPSC shooters shot .45 ACP and 38 Super 1911's to failure?
Most CZ 75 pistols run well over 300,000 before requiring any significant work be done to them. Steel VS Polymer? The winner is going to be steel. If polymer is so great, why not make the slide out of it as well?
 
#17 ·
Steel VS Polymer? The winner is going to be steel. If polymer is so great, why not make the slide out of it as well?
Different materials for different purposes. Same reason the steel used for the barrel is so different from the steel (or aluminum or zinc) used for the slide. But you already knew that.

Thing that gets me with this whole polymer is greatest thing, is that the slide doesn't ride on polymer. All those polymer guns have metal skeletons. Once again, point is moot.

The question should be, steel, aluminum or titanium?
You're right that the slide rides on steel rails. It's an issue of abrasion resistance, not strength. Rub steel against polymer and you'll wear down the polymer. But the same is true of aluminum.
I've accidentally cut through some of the strongest aluminum you're likely to ever encounter by rubbing it against a material with a greater resistance to abrasion. Good rock climbing gear rated to hold over 5,000 lbs.

You know, I can use sand paper to wear down that nice steel slide. Maybe we should start making the slides from glass, then. :rolleyes:
 
#18 ·
You're right that the slide rides on steel rails. It's an issue of abrasion resistance, not strength. Rub steel against polymer and you'll wear down the polymer. But the same is true of aluminum.
Exactly, so what it comes down to is cycles and how well you maintain/lube your weapon.

The aluminum alloys of today are stronger that we have ever seen. Titanium was unheard of a few decades ago for the everyday consumer, and of course polymers are perhaps the newest tech.

I have carried polymer, steel and aluminum.

I found the polymer light weight, but bulky, since i carry .45acp, regardless of weapon. A 1911 (alum frame) provides near the same weight, but the profile is lower for the large bore. Steel is an like anchor for a 1911.
 
#19 ·
Most CZ 75 pistols run well over 300,000 before requiring any significant work be done to them. Steel VS Polymer? The winner is going to be steel. If polymer is so great, why not make the slide out of it as well?
Wow! I had no idea pistols were being fired in this kind of volume. Who is putting 300,000 rounds thru a CZ-75? Is the factory doing it just to find where the failure point is?

Sometime in the past there was a gun magazine that did torture tests, but I don't think they were more than 5 or 10 thousand rounds. 300,000 rounds is 500 rounds a day for more than 8 years!
 
#20 · (Edited)
500 rnd's per day
2-3 days a week
10-40 weeks a year ,
maybe 18 years worth ( was away often and different units different training allowances )

180,000 on the low side , 1,080,000 on the high side over two pistols not CZ but look at spec forces around the place and see what they use , if they use CZ's they'll be high use ones ( maybe not , we wear stuff out get it fixed give it back and make it last as long as possible )

we where only talking about that the past week

how we'd be happy just with the brass ..
 
#21 ·
Early HS2000s had plastic rails. The rear rails on all XD pistols,are plastic, mine show no signs of wear. P95s run on all plastic rails and it passed all tests to be ordered for US military use. Google rock island arsenal orders ruger pistols.

The rails have nothing to do with it anyway. Its the slide to frame contact upon recoil. Poly will outlast any frame material anyway for high round counts. Shot enough on all frame types to know this. Don't care what anyone might think....
 
#22 · (Edited)
Wow! I had no idea pistols were being fired in this kind of volume. Who is putting 300,000 rounds thru a CZ-75? Is the factory doing it just to find where the failure point is?

Sometime in the past there was a gun magazine that did torture tests, but I don't think they were more than 5 or 10 thousand rounds. 300,000 rounds is 500 rounds a day for more than 8 years!
European military training pistols.
 
#23 ·
Early HS2000s had plastic rails. The rear rails on all XD pistols,are plastic, mine show no signs of wear. P95s run on all plastic rails and it passed all tests to be ordered for US military use. Google rock island arsenal orders ruger pistols.

The rails have nothing to do with it anyway. Its the slide to frame contact upon recoil. Poly will outlast any frame material anyway for high round counts. Shot enough on all frame types to know this. Don't care what anyone might think....
Poly does not outlast steel. Cz Pistols in military service are proof of this. Being in law enforcement since the arrival of the Glock in the U.S. Law enforcement, I have found that they have lots of failures. I have seen Glock frames some apart on several occasions. I have seen a Glock frame ripped in half. Is Glock a good weapons system? Yes! Is it as good as Glock claims it is? No. Glock dominates L.E. in the U.S. because they give the departments their weapons.
 
#25 ·
"... they give the departments their weapons."

I know several departments that use Glocks and bought them. Does Glock give guns only to some departments? Can the others sue for discrimination?

Jim
No department with a lick of sense would buy them. It is a well known fact you can get them without paying for them. From what I have heard, (had to put that qualifier in there:D) Glock will swap you new Glocks, new holsters, and new magazines for any worn out junk you want to trade them. When you are crunching numbers in a budget, that equates to "free."
 
#26 ·
Poly does not outlast steel. Cz Pistols in military service are proof of this. Being in law enforcement since the arrival of the Glock in the U.S. Law enforcement, I have found that they have lots of failures. I have seen Glock frames some apart on several occasions. I have seen a Glock frame ripped in half. Is Glock a good weapons system? Yes! Is it as good as Glock claims it is? No. Glock dominates L.E. in the U.S. because they give the departments their weapons.
Is that an opinion, think, or experience?
 
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