H&A XL8 .32, NY Arms 'Columbia'

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by KoolMD, Feb 25, 2012.

  1. KoolMD

    KoolMD New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    Messages:
    4
    Inherited two old revolvers recently, both 5-shot from the late 1800's, I think.

    The first, stamped on the top:
    --
    Hopkins & Allen Mfg Co
    Pat. Mar. 28.71 Jan 5.86
    XL 8 Double Action
    32 cal. Center Fire
    --
    I've seen a few mentions of this when searching the web, but most all have black/rubber grips. I've not seen any references to the mother-of-pearl grips this one has.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The second, stamped on the top of the barrel:
    --
    Columbian Automatic Pat Pdg (I think, hard to read)
    New York Arms Co.
    --
    I've not been able to find any info on this revolver. Either it was crap and no one cares, or it's very rare...?
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Here's the box of ammo that came in the box as well.
    [​IMG]

    I've not tried to fire these, not knowing if that ammo is really meant for these guns, and I'd at least want to oil and clean 'em first if they're ok (and ammo that old, likely wouldn't spark anyway?).

    Any history? General worth? I don't think I want to keep these antiques around... Should I leave them as they are or try to clean them up a bit?

    THanks!!
    KE
  2. hrf

    hrf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,865
    Welcome to the forum.

    Your H&A is actually an XL 3 model, but the 3 is stamped so deeply it is often mistaken for an 8. H&A did also make an XL 8 but much larger and .44 caliber. Value in condition shown might be helped by the mother of pearl grips, but probably less than $150.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Here is a bit about the "Columbian Automatic" revolvers:

    " The Columbian Firearms Manufacturing Company
    Columbian was probably formed in 1893, soon after the financial difficulties of Foehl & Weeks became apparent, and almost certainly named in honor of the World’s Columbian Exhibition, held in Chicago in 1893. The president of Columbian Firearms was Henry Ruhland, a Philadelphia financier who just happened to be the bankruptcy referee for Foehl & Weeks (the equivalent of a modern bankruptcy judge). Foehl managed the company, which occupied the same factory that had been previously used by Foehl & Weeks. Essentially, Ruhland and Foehl created a new legal entity which could continue producing firearms using Foehl’s patents, without being liable for Foehl & Weeks’ debts. Later, a half interest in two of Foehl’s patents (#530,759 of 1894 and #554,058 of 1896, the latter of which was on the Baby Hammerless) was assigned to Henry Ruhland. The firm manufactured top-break revolvers nearly identical to those manufactured by Foehl & Weeks. Some were marked “COLUMBIAN F. A. MFG. CO. PHILA. PA. U.S.A./ PAT. DEC. 11.1894 PAT.PDG.” Others were marked “COLUMBIAN AUTOMATIC PAT.PDG./ NEW YORK ARMS CO.”

    Although fairly scarce, value is not high and in condition shown less than $100.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The box of .22 Shorts is not for either revolver, and is not old enough to be valuable. They should fire just fine in any .22 Short, Long, or Long Rifle rifle or handgun.
  3. KoolMD

    KoolMD New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    Messages:
    4
    Thank you for the quick reply! Interesting info on both these, and especially since I've not seen anything about the Columbian revolver..

    I'll have to dig out a magnifying glass and look at that H&A 8/3...it sure looks like an 8! If it's a 3, it's not like the 3 in the '.32' stamp (not that I'm trying to doubt your expertise, it just REALLY looks like an 8 ;-)

    With some antiques, it's recommended they not be cleaned-up. With these, any sense in doing so? Sanding off the rust on the Columbian? Oiling up the pieces and a general metal polish? Or wouldn't that be worthwhile...

    Thank you very much for your time. There's a Gun Show coming around in a month or two, maybe I'll try to sell these there... I don't know of any antique dealers in the area who may be interested...
  4. hrf

    hrf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,865
    In the 1896 Sears catalog, the Columbian sold for $4.25

    Ends of the 3 on the XL 3 are deeply curved, but that's what it is. They made an XL 5 that was similar but .38 caliber.

    Don't sand either gun, but you might clean up the Columbian carefully with 0000 steel wool and a little oil; anything coarser will do more harm than good.
  5. KoolMD

    KoolMD New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    Messages:
    4
    Thanks again for the reply and guidance! Will see if I can clean up the Columbian and find someone who's interested...
    Cheers!
  6. papavince

    papavince New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2012
    Messages:
    6
    Hi,
    Just ran across your post on the New York Arms Co. Revolver. I've been looking for one for parts. Is it still available?
    Thanks!
  7. KoolMD

    KoolMD New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    Messages:
    4
    Possibly. I have a local fella also possibly interested. What parts do you like and how much would you offer?
    Message me direct on this site and happy to chat about it.
    KM
  8. papavince

    papavince New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2012
    Messages:
    6
    New here not sure how to direct message--please message me and we can work it out.
    Thanks,
    V
  9. TheGunClinger

    TheGunClinger Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2008
    Messages:
    2,800
    Location:
    SW Florida
    Just click on the posters
    name and you will see the PM option.
  10. papavince

    papavince New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2012
    Messages:
    6
    Thanks--that did it
Similar Threads
Forum Title Date
The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum IVER JOHNSON'S ARMS & CYCLE WORKS Jul 1, 2014
The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum Hero pistol manhattan fire arms company Jun 28, 2014
The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum Central Arms Co Jun 25, 2014
The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum Iver Johnsons Arms & Cycle Works Jun 7, 2014
The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum H&R Arms Hunter Revolver Jun 4, 2014

Share This Page