H&R 44 cal.

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by Randyy, Mar 6, 2008.

  1. Randyy

    Randyy New Member

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    H&R
    Single shot
    patent date 1905
    has a flip type pin behind hinge of gun and comes apart into 2 pieces
    the gun is in bad condition but was handed down by grandpa :)

    Almost looks like an old .410 singleshot

    But has rifling in barrel so i know its a rifle:D

    Thanks guys randy
  2. b.goforth

    b.goforth New Member

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    i believe you need to look at this shotgun closer. the patent date for the removable hinge pin is dated 5-14-1901. this is most likely a model 1905 small frame single barrel shotgun which is chambered for the 44 caliber shot shell. check the barrel again i doubt it is rifled. you might say the 44 shot shell loading is the grandfather of the 410. the top of the barrel is marked 44 caliber but that is not meant as a rifle caliber markings. the 44 shot shell is based on the 44-40 winchester centerfire cartridge but is loaded with shot. the chamber length is 2 inches. H&R also offered the model 1905 in 45-70 shot and 28 gauge. this shotgun should not be fired as it is considered a black powder only shotgun.

    the model 1905 was manufactured between 1906 and 1915. the model that replaced it the model 1915 does not have the removable hinge pin and was offered in several more chamberings including the 410-44 which was the next step toward the 410 bore.

    to determine the era of any preWWII H&R small bore single barrel shot gun use these guidelines;
    1906-1915 marked 44 caliber model 1905
    1916-1920 marked 410-44 model 1915
    1921-1935 marked 410-12mm model 1908 and 1915
    1936-1942 marked 410 and chambered for 3 inch shells models 1908 and 1915
    bill

    ps if it does have a rifled barrel it is not factory and definitely should not be fired
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2008
  3. Randyy

    Randyy New Member

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    No It Defenitly Has Rifling
    And pat could be 1901 but looks to be 1905
  4. b.goforth

    b.goforth New Member

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    randy,
    this is starting to sound interesting. i have some more questions.
    what is the rest of the patent date?
    what are the exact markings on the reciever and the top of the barrel?
    does it have front and rear sights?
    can your post a picture?
    what is serial number? (should be found behind the trigger guard on the lower tang)

    the reasons for these questions is, i have not found any H&R rifle or shotgun patents with 1905 dates. they do have some revolver patents dated in 1905. none of my h&r research has turned up any single shot rifles until 1963. the 44 caliber model 158 and 058 manufatured in the 1970's and 1980's was chambered for the 44 magnum cartridge. on the other hand i did not know H&R had expermented with a pump centerfire repeating rifle in the 1950's until two years ago. i now have one of only two known prototypes of this rifle.
    bill
  5. Randyy

    Randyy New Member

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    pics coming soon for you guys
  6. Randyy

    Randyy New Member

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    hope these will help guys all info appreciated

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  7. Randyy

    Randyy New Member

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    more pics thanks

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  8. b.goforth

    b.goforth New Member

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    these pictures are of a late production H&R MODEL 1905 Lightweight (small frame) SHOTGUN. the model 1905 was manufactured between 1906 and 1915. the one 1901 patent date and the "A" letter code prefix to the serial number are an indication this gun was manufactured between 1910 and 1915.
    the 44 caliber markings on the barrel are the way H&R marked those models chambered for the 44 shot shell.

    the 44 shot shell is based on the 44-40 winchester center fire cartridge. there was also a shot cartridge called the 44 extra long shot shell that offered an increase in the number of pellets loaded in the shot shell. these early 44 caliber shot shells eventually evolved into the modern american 410 bore shot shell. in 1916 the model 1915 replaced the model 1905. the Model 1915 was chambered for the earliest form of the 410 bore shot shell (combination of brass and paper construction) of slightly over 2 inches in length, they were marked 410-44 to indicate they would also chamber the earlier 44 caliber all brass shot shell. about 1921 the marking were changed again to 410-12mm this indicated the chamber length was 2 1/2 inches in length and they would also accept the european 12mm shot shell. and finally in 1937 the chamber was lengthened to 3 inches and the markings were just 410.

    as stated earlier this is a shotgun with a smoothbore. note the lack of a rear sight or any provisions for one. if this barrel has real rifling it was done after it left the factory and would have made a thin inside diameter barrel even thinner and therefore dangerous to fire with even the proper 44 shot shell.
    bill

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