H&R hammerless .32 break open

Discussion in 'Technical Questions & Information' started by Mountainman, Apr 27, 2009.

  1. Mountainman

    Mountainman New Member

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    don't know what model I have, but it is missing quite a few parts and has some that are very much in need of replacement ( shaky and poorly timed cylinder might need hand and cylinder stop). I hear that Bill Goforth is the expert and this is his home. I take it I came to the right place?
    Thanks,
    J.W.
  2. b.goforth

    b.goforth New Member

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    here is some info. about the H&R hammerless models;
    H&R HAMMERLESS FIRST MODEL LARGE FRAME TOP BREAK
    (BLACK POWDER)----------------------------------1899-1904
    Large Frame Double Action Hammerless Top Break revolver with double top post barrel latch; caliber and cylinder capacity, 38 S&W (5 rounds); finish is nickel or blue (optional); grips are hard rubber with a target logo at the top; standard barrel length is 3 ¼ inch, with 4, 5 and 6 inch optiona; rebounding hammer; automatic cylinder stop. There are no known variations in this model. top of barrel is marked with the same 5 patent dates as the Auto-Ejector Second model 5th Variation, no caliber markings on left side of barrel.
    Serial number range; approximately 01* to 45000* (No letter codes): Highest known 43308 (* Estimate)
    NO CALIBER MARKINGON LEFT SIDE OF BARREL DESIGNED FOR BLACK POWDER CARTRIDGE PRESSURES ONLY
    VALUE: 100%=$295 60%=$105 Add 10% premium for blue finish; 20% premium 4”, 5” or 6” barrel

    H&R HAMMERLESS SECOND MODEL LARGE FRAME TOP BREAK
    Smokeless powder-----------------------------------------1905-1941
    Large Frame Double Action Hammerless Top Break revolver with double top post barrel latch; caliber and cylinder capacity, 38 S&W (5 rounds); finish is nickel or blue (optional); grips are hard rubber with a target logo at the top; standard barrel length is 3 ¼ inch, with 4, 5 and 6 inch optional; rebounding hammer; automatic cylinder stop. The cylinder was lengthen to take the 32 S&W long cartridge and the catalogs now listed the calibers as; 6 shot 32 S&W, 32 S&W Long, 32 Colt New Police cartridges. Also offered in 5 shot 38 S&W and 38 Colt New Police. Caliber marked on left side of barrel THIS MODEL WAS DESIGNED FOR SMOKELESS POWDER CARTRIDGE PRESSURES
    First variation, 5 patent dates same as First model with caliber marked on left side of barrel, serial number range 45000*-55000* (estimate)-1905-Only
    Second Variation, patent dates,5-14 & 8-6-89,4-2-95, 4-7-96, serial number range; 55000*- 100000*(estimate)---------1906-1908
    Third Variation, patent dates 8-6-1889, 10-8-1895, serial number range; 100000*-120000*(estimate)---------1909-1912:
    Fourth Variation, no patent dates, state in address not spelled out (MASS.), serial number range; 120000*-160000*(estimate)------1913-1915
    Fifth Variation, no patent dates state name in address is spelled out (MASSACHUETTS), serial number range; 160000*-190000*(estimate)-1916-1924
    Sixth Variation , new grip frame same as Auto-Ejector, serial number range; unknown----1925-1940
    There is some indication production of the hammerless model stopped somewhere in the early 1920’s but it was carried in catalogs until 1941 Estimate*
    After 1930 listed in Catalogs as: H&R HAMMERLESS No. 50 TOP BREAK .32 S&W LONG 6 shot and H&R HAMMERLESS No. 55 TOP BREAK .38 S&W 5 shot
    VALUE: 100%=$325 60%$110 Add 10% premium for blue finish; 20% premium 4”, 5” or 6” barrel

    H&R HAMMERLESS FIRST MODEL SMALL FRAME TOP BREAK
    (BLACK POWDER)-----------------------------------1899-1904
    Small Frame Double Action Hammerless Top Break revolver with double top post barrel latch; caliber and cylinder capacity, 32 S&W (5 rounds), None of the catalogs I have seem indicates the First Model was offered in 22 rimfire; finish is nickel or blue (optional); grips are hard rubber with a target logo at the top; standard barrel length is 3 ¼ inch, with 4, 5 and 6 inch optional; rebounding hammer; automatic cylinder stop; no caliber markings on left side of barrel. NO CALIBER MARKING ON LEFT SIDE OF BARREL DESIGNED FOR BLACK POWDER CARTRIDGE PRESSURES
    First Variation, patent dates 10-4-87, 4-2-95, 4-7-96, serial number range; 01*-82000*(Estimate)----1899-1903
    Second Variation, patent dates 5-14-89,4-2-95, 4-6-96, serial number range; 82000*-90000*(Estimate)---1904-Only
    VALUE: 100%=$255 60%=$95 Add 10% premium for blue finish; 20% premium 4”, 5” or 6” barrel

    H&R HAMMERLESS SECOND MODEL SMALL FRAME TOP BREAK
    (SMOKELESS POWDER)---------------------------------1905-1941
    Small Frame Double Action Hammerless Top Break revolver with double top post barrel latch; caliber and cylinder capacity, 32 S&W (5 rounds), 22 Rimfire (7 rounds); finish is nickel or blue (optional); grips are hard rubber with a target logo at the top; standard barrel length is 3 ¼ inch, with 4, 5 and 6 inch optional; rebounding hammer; automatic cylinder stop, caliber marking on left side of barrel.
    CALIBER MARKINGS ON LEFT SIDE OF BARREL DESIGNED FOR SMOKELESS POWDER CARTRIDGE PRESSURES ONLY
    First Variation, patent dates 5-14-89, 4-2-95, 4-7-96, serial number range 90000*-100000* (estimate)-------1905-1906
    Second Variation, patent dates 4-2-95, 4-7-96 serial number range 100000*-120000* (estimate)-----1907-1909
    Third Variation, patent date 10-8-95, serial number range 120000*-180000* (estimate)--------1910-1913
    Fourth Variation no patent dates small font use for company name. serial number range 180000*-190000*(estimate)-----1914-only
    Fifth variation, large font used in company name and state not spelled out (MASS), serial number range 190000*-200000* (estimate)----1915-only
    Sixth Variation, state name in address spelled out (MASSACHUSETTS) serial number range 200000*-220000* (estimate)---1916-1924
    Seventh Variation, new grip frame it is now same width as rest of frame no step down for grips, serial number range unknown----1925-1942
    After 1930 listed in catalogs as: HAMMERLESS No. 40 TOP BREAK 22 Rimfire7 shot and HAMMERLESS No. 45 TOP BREAK 32 S&W 5 shot
    VALUE: 100%=$265 60%=$75 Add 10% premium for blue finish; 20% premium 4”, 5” or 6” barrel; 20% premium for 22 rimfire caliber

    bill
  3. Mountainman

    Mountainman New Member

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    So what I have is 3rd variation H&R HAMMERLESS SECOND MODEL SMALL FRAME TOP BREAK . and it is in Nickel. Now what I need are parts and before that a breakdown diagram. This thing is a bit shaky on what should be a locked cylinder and the trigger does not reset. I'll try e guns and sarco, any suggestions. Worse case, if I have to blueprint and make the parts, where could I go for parts to model off of. It seems to me that these are somewhat rare but not valuable.
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2009
  4. b.goforth

    b.goforth New Member

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    usually a second model (black powder only) that is missing parts is not cost effective to repair especially if they have to be made. you can also try the online auction sites for parts that show up every now and then.
    bill
  5. Mountainman

    Mountainman New Member

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    It's not a black powder gun. That is for sure.
    Now that I took the thing apart completely, I have more ?'s. A.) what is it that resets the trigger? Second of all, does any one have a close up pic of teh trigger? I believe that on mine the fixed cylinder stop that is machined part of the trigger is somewhat broken. I need a diagram. please.
    J.W.
  6. b.goforth

    b.goforth New Member

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    if this is a second model hammerless (smokeless) large frame it should have an automatic cylinder stop. check the numrich arms web site for picture of the parts haowever it does not show how they fit together.

    the trigger return spring and the rebounding lever work together to reset the trigger and bring the hammer to rebound position.
    bill
  7. Mountainman

    Mountainman New Member

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    Anybody have pics of the rebounding lever? I take it the trigger return spring is a small V spring that goes between the trigger and the trigger guard? Now, by automatic cylinder stop you mean that little nub that is built onto the trigger, It's a solid one piece deal that I am afraid is maybe broken. Can't quite tell.
  8. b.goforth

    b.goforth New Member

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    pictures of both of these parts are availble on the numrich arms web site. the cylinder stop is thing spring like part that has a hole in one end for screw attachment and the other end is shaped into an arch (or half circle) and protudes through the frame.
    bill
    Last edited: May 1, 2009
  9. Mountainman

    Mountainman New Member

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    here are pics that should help. I'll be getting pic of just he trigger by tomorrow.

    Attached Files:

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