H&R "The American Double Action" observations:

Discussion in 'Technical Questions & Information' started by 45Auto, Feb 24, 2009.

  1. 45Auto

    45Auto Active Member

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    Hello Old Gun Guy,

    That narrows it down. Trigger guards for "THE AMERICAN DOUBLE ACTION" and similar revolvers are too wide to fit the '04.

    It also appears that the markings on the top strap of the Model 1904 came in variations. On my .38 caliber example, "1904" is not abreviated.

    [​IMG]

    PM to follow.
  2. 45Auto

    45Auto Active Member

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    It seems that I should clear things up about the frame sizes and model designations of these revolvers:

    Now that I have done some checking, it appears that the Model 1904 came in only one frame size. The smaller 5 shot 32 was called the Model 1905. There was also a much smaller 7 shot 22 revolver called the Model 1906.
  3. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

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    Good catch - check my posting from 1/29 on the different frame sizes vs. Models.

    Also: the early .32 Model 1904s were marked with the '04 abreviation and the .38s were marked with the '1904' date. Late in production both calibers were marked with the full '1904.'
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2010
  4. Old Gun Guy

    Old Gun Guy Member

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    Gentlemen,
    Thank you for your inputs on the various idiosynchrasies of this particular model of the 1904 H&R revolver. However, I am still in a quandry about the information on the street.
    Numrich claims there are three sizes of frames for the 1904 H&R revolver, although they can only come up with parts for two.
    Some claim that the medium frame revolver is the 1905, only mine is a medium frame marked '04.
    I have ordered every possible combination of trigger guard for my revolver, and so far to no avail. I think I'll melt them down for scrap metal price, and use the proceeds to pay for my therapist. :D:D:D
    Old Gun Guy
  5. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

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    Old Gun Guy,
    The medium frame 1905 has a crescent shaped trigger with a "spur" or a forward pointing extension at the top by the frame (very much like the trigger on the S&W "Lemonsqueezer") and very similar to the trigger on the Premier Model. The Model 1904 has a curved trigger with a smooth transition at the top, similar to the American Double Action.
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2010
  6. b.goforth

    b.goforth New Member

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    to all,
    i believe i have come to a conclusion about the observations by 45auto that started this thread. to answer his original question, yes i believe this is the earliest of the first model first variation and i have change the book to show it is the first variation and changed the other variations to show that. thanks for this acute observation.

    now i am looking for the highest serial number in this variation. i have serial numbers 171 and 173 already from jim hauff and it looks like number 458 from 45auto. anybody have more serial numbers that have this offset (to the rear) trigger guard retaining pin.

    to 45auto, i could use a better picture like the one you posted (the three types of trigger guard) only a little clearer to show the serial number.

    to jim, i will send the changes for you to comment on later.

    bill
  7. b.goforth

    b.goforth New Member

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    this was a duplicate post
    bill
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2010
  8. 45Auto

    45Auto Active Member

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    [​IMG]

    Bill, here is another image.

    I can account for three revolvers with the two pins and a screw trigger guard:

    No. 223, 302, and 453

    Let me know about any additional images.
  9. b.goforth

    b.goforth New Member

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    that for the additional picture, i will let you know if i need more. it look like the highest number so far is 453.
    bill
  10. Dymoke

    Dymoke New Member

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    Great post's
    I have an American DA (belonged to Grandpa) Has number 483 under left grip
    My questions are approximately how old and if my gunsmith thinks it safe to shoot, where and what kind of ammo should I use?
    I belive its a .44 cal

    I have pictures but don't know how to load'em
    Thanks for any info
    Woody
  11. b.goforth

    b.goforth New Member

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    if you can't post to the forum you can send the pictures to my e-mail
    goforth2@peoplepc.com

    after i get them i will tell you what i can.
    bill
  12. candjhuntley

    candjhuntley New Member

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    I sent you an email with pictures i have taken - i have not taken the grips off of the gun (scared to do it) to check serial number, but perhaps if you need it i can - please check your email and get back to me as i'm not sure where i can host pictures to upload them here.
    Chris
  13. candjhuntley

    candjhuntley New Member

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    I just took the grips off - my serial number is 926 - i hope this helps if my pistol is the type you're looking for
  14. b.goforth

    b.goforth New Member

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    yes this is the model and variation i am looking for thanks for the pictures and the serial number

    bill
  15. traderquinn

    traderquinn New Member

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    I have the three pin guard but has a different barrel drop as you can see in the photo here. What do you know about this configuration?[​IMG]
  16. b.goforth

    b.goforth New Member

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    the one picture i was able to see shows this to be a different model. it is a second model large frame auto-eject manufactured before 1898 either a 1th ,2nd or 3rd variation.

    AUTOMATIC EJECTING SECOND MODEL (NEW FRAME TARGET LOGO GRIPS)
    (BLACK POWDER) ---------------------------------1890-1904
    New frame shape and new hard rubber grip panels with Target Logo, Auto-ejecting mechanism, Calibers 32 S&W, 6 shot cylinder capacity, 38 S&W caliber 5 shot cylinder capacity, nickel finish (blue optional), barrel lengths of 2½ (rare), 3¼ (standard), 4, 5 & 6 inches available, “IF THERE IS NO CALIBER MARKING ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE BARREL THEN IT WAS MANUFACTURED FOR BLACK POWDER”
    Top of barrel markings include company name and address and patent dates.
    First Variation; one patent date OCT-4-87 only -------------1890-1892
    Second Variation one patent date marked OCT-4-1887 (year marked in full) ---1890-1892*
    Third Variation three patent dates, Oct-4-1887, May 14 & Aug-6-89 ---1893-Only*
    Fourth Variation three patent dates Oct-4-87, May-14 & Aug-6-89 (note 87 date des not have full year markings)--------1894-1896*
    Fifth Variation five patent dates Oct-4-87, May 14 & Aug-6-89, April-2-95, April-7-96-----------1897-1904*
    *Serial numbers found on the bottom side of the top strap will have letter codes with them.
    VALUE 100%=$225 60%=$85 For all Auto-Ejecting 2nd Models; add 75% premium for 2½” barrel; add 25% for 4”, 5” & 6” barrels; add 15% for blue finish; add 10% for 1st , 2nd, 3rd & 4th variations with nickel trigger guard on nickel finish pieces

    bill
  17. bo_leggs

    bo_leggs New Member

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    Okay, maybe you can help me, too. My pistol is nickel with blue trigger guard, octagonal barrel with H & R Arms Company, Worcester, Mass USA and 38 S&W CTGE on the left side of barrel. On the top strap it has Safety Hammer and Double Action. It has the two pin trigger guard and pull pin on the cylinder. Serial number 13**JJ on the butt. Hammer can only be cocked or put in safe position by engaging the trigger; the hammer is shaped like the contour of the frame. My pistol has a cracked cylinder that I would like to replace. Any help would be appreciated.
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2013
  18. hrf

    hrf Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to TFF.

    Sorry to inform that expert Bill Goforth passed away early 2011.

    Numrich lists .38 rimfire cylinders, but I doubt the large frame .38 was made in a rimfire, and might be a mistake:

    http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufac...dson-33274/Revolvers-36449/American-38121.htm

    You might also call their customer service as they may have a usable cylinder from a parts gun.
  19. bo_leggs

    bo_leggs New Member

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    Yes, I'd read in another thread that Bill is now in that great shooting gallery on high.

    I had seen the Numrich listing for the .38 rimfire. I appreciate you giving me someone to contact about it. I was hoping that there would be someone who could help. I also have what looks like an older H&R in .32 cal centerfire breakover. It has a round barrel with a rib on top for the sight Printing on the top of the rib says:
    Harrington & Richardson Arms Company
    Worcester, Mass. USA Pat Oct 4, 1887, May 14 & Aug 6, 89

    This one is a double action only, with no safe position, and a 6 hole cylinder. I feel the ejector on this one should be replaced because of wear on the turning dogs. It came with a very old mixed box of .32 long centerfire and .32 long rimfire. If someone can point me to a thread for this one, I'd be most appreciative.

    Never mind, I found my thread and also found that this one can't be shot with modern cartridges. Strictly black powder cartridges only from what the other thread says. Guess I could try some of the cartridges it "came" with. Ha Ha.
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2013
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