H&R top break 7 shot 22 model ?

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by thunderace, Jan 10, 2011.

  1. thunderace

    thunderace New Member

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    Hi,I pickked up a H&R 7 shot breaktop revolver in 22 cal.Its barrel length is 2 inches.The mainspring is a leaf type and on the right side of barrel it has 22 Long Rifle Ctge marked.The gun was reblued and the model type must have been removed .The serial no is 525xxx.the gun came with a pair of home made wood grips that have seen better days.Is this a Premier model?I would like to get a nice set of wood grips if they are available but I am unsure of its model. Thanks,Rick
  2. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

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    It sure sounds like a late model PREMIER (2" barrel). Serial number in that range should have a non-stepped grip frame with grip panels that are flush with the frame. I know of no commercial sources for wooden grips. Take a look at the attached pic - your's should look like the one on the left.

    IMG_2008_2.jpg

    IMG_2010_2.jpg
  3. thunderace

    thunderace New Member

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    Jim, mine has a look like the one on the right in the second pic set.The top of the grip has a rounded center section that fits up into the gun frame . Looks similar to some of the I Johnson grip panels . I have some imitation pearl material I can make a nice set of grips for it.Do you know about when this Gun was made ,and when did they stop this model? I think I saw something about this model stopping in the early 1950 s. Thanks, Rick
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2011
  4. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

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    Thunder - you've got me STUMPED. With the serial number you posted, it should be like the one on the left with the flush fitting grip panels???? Are you sure of the serial number being 525thousand? If you will note - the serial number on the pic. on the left is 493123. With a 525xxx number it should have the same characteristics - serial numbering was progressive and sequential. I cannot provide any DOM advice with this discrepancy. Can you post a picture?
    Current research indicates that production of this model was discontinued at the start of WW2 - although Bill Goforth has come across info that some of these were issured to OSS agents during WW2.

    Maybe Bill G. can provide some insight?
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2011
  5. thunderace

    thunderace New Member

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    Jim, the serial no. range is correct that I gave you ,a six diget no.I will get some pics out so you can see. I wont be able to get them out untill tonight.After you see these please let me know your thoughts on this one. Thanks, Rick
  6. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

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    thuderace -
    Thanks for the update. Pics are great for ID and greatly anticipated. Thanks in advance.
  7. thunderace

    thunderace New Member

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    JIM, THESE ARE THE PICS OF THE PISTOL IN QUESTION ON THE GRIP FRAME DESIGN.AS YOU CAN SEE IT IS IN THE 500 THOUSAND RANGE. I MADE THE IMITATION MOP GRIPS FOR IT THE OTHER DAY.COULDNT GET THE PICS OUT UNTILL TODAY. PLEASE LET ME KNOW ON THIS. I SEE THESE WERE ISSUED TO SERVICE INTELLIGENCE OPERATIVES DURING WWII, BUT WHAT I READ IS THAT IT TOOK A SPECIAL GRIP. THANKS, RICK

    Well, I tried to attach the pictures but the upload failed for some reason. Says that there is a security icon missing. I am not sure what that means. If you any ideas for me to send the pictures, let me know. Rick
  8. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

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    Rick - send them to my e-mail (bobell01@aol.com) and I'll get them up for you.

    Here they are:

    GRIP2.jpg

    GRIP3.jpg

    GRIP4.jpg

    GRIP_2.jpg
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2011
  9. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

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    The pictured gun is NOT as "PREMIER" (the trigger is wrong for that model, as a re the frame proportions) - let me do a bit of further research - I have a pretty good idea of what it is - but before I shoot my mouth off (no pun intended)- I'd like to review a couple features - including a couple more pics from Thunderace - to confirm my suspicions. I can say, with confidence - it is a RARE example.
  10. thunderace

    thunderace New Member

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    Jim, have sent the new pics you requested and I am sure you will come up with a answer on what this pistol is.I appreciate your time and research on this and will be waiting to here from you with your info. Thanks, Rick
  11. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

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    Rick,
    Studied your pics - I was right when I said this was a "rare" piece - I'm pretty sure it is a one of a kind - however - that may or may not be good news. Let's take a look at what I see:
    The frame has all the attributes -pin placement, hinge config., hammer, cylinder, grip frame, trigger guard and trigger, top latch and rear sight ears - of the "22 SPECIAL" model.
    The serial number also falls into the serial number range for that model.

    grip7_2.jpg
    IMG_0342_3.jpg

    The barrel is my sticking point - at 2" it is 1/3 the length of the standard 22 SPECIAL - I can't see the crowning on the muzzle, but from the pic it looks to be close to factory contours. The REAL problem is with the front sight blade - the groove that holds the blade looks to be crudely cut - there's a bit of bare metal showing on both side of the cut - AND the blade itself appears to be 1/2 of a coin (serrated edges) probably a dime.
    grip8_2.jpg
    It is possible that the shortened barrel is factory (would really need to examine the crowning technique in hand), this is not unknown: I have a 1938 SPORTSMAN with what appears to be a factory shortened, 4" barrel). It is also possible that the front sight blade fell out at some point and was replaced with a handy substitute (this is also not unknown - I have several examples of different models on which this was done.)
    You posted that the item in question was reblued? If so - top barrel rib and left side barrel markings could have been buffed off - which would explain why there is no evidence (at least in your pics) of what should be the last couple letters in SPECIAL - OR - if factory made with shortened barrel - it would have not be marked in the first place.
    All this brings us to the close of this CSI-H&R episode for today. Very interesting item for investigation - let's have another picture of the crowing of the muzzle. Dang it - very interesting.
    Here's what I was hoping to find - a very rare 2" barrel AUTO EJECTOR:
    IMG_1900_2.jpg
  12. thunderace

    thunderace New Member

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    JIM,I CHECKED OUT THE FRONT SIGHT AND AS YOU SAID IT HAS BEEN REPLACED.BUT LIKE YOU SAID THIS IS NOT UNCOMMON IN THESE GUNS.I HAVE RUN ACROSS TWO IVER JOHNSON REVOLVERS WITH THE FRONT SIGHTS MISSING WITH THE SLOTS STILL OK AND REPLACED THEM JUST IN THE LAST YEAR.THE CROWNING MAY BE THE KEY TO THIS.IT LOOKS VERY GOOD ,TOO GOOD NOT TO BE DONE PROFESSIONALY.I DO SEE SOME FAINT SWIRLS IN CROWN FACE BUT HAVE SEEN THIS BEFORE IN OTHER GUNS IN THIS PRICE RANGE WHEN NEW.THE 2 INCH MEASUREMENT OF THE BARREL IS PRECISE,MY CONCLUSION IS IF IT WAS CHANGED IN LENGTH IT WOULD OF HAD TO BE DONE AT THE FACTORY OR BY A PROFESSIONAL GUNSMITH.I WILL SEND OUT A COUPLE OF NEW PICS TO YOU AS YOU ASKED ALL IN ALL THIS HAS BEEN A CASE FOR CSI.ON ANOTHER SUBJECT I HAVE BEEN DEEPLY SADDENED TO HEAR OF THE PASSING OF BILL GOFORTH,ALTHOUGH I DID NOT NO HIM PERSONALLY I FELT AS THOUGH I DID BY THE MANY QUESTIONS HE HAS HELPED ME WITH IN THE PAST 2 YEARS ON THIS FORUM.WE WILL ALL MISS HIM DEEPLY. THANKS, RICK
  13. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

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    Check out this muzzle crowning - look similar?

    IMG_0376_2.jpg
  14. thunderace

    thunderace New Member

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    Jim,will have to wait for your pics until tonight,but what I can tell you from looking at your picture is that the face of my barrel rib looks exactly in the same position in distance back from face of the barrel. The contour looks same also as it arcs back from barrel face.I took a measrement on this distance and mine sits back aprox 50 thousandths.I did not have a micrometer to check this but I can say it is a hair over 3/64 s of a inch in distance.Now the edge of the rifling at the crown sits back aprox 30 thousandths from face of crown.From what I see in your pic yours looks further back than that.I did see at Numrich gun parts the 22 barrel part nos for a 7 shot and 9 shot are different even when they are same length for auto eject guns..If somebody had the barrel length altered on this, the labor to do it wouldnt warrant it .Costwise,they probably could have bought another gun in a shorter barrel for the same cost ,and had 2 guns. I will get these new pics out tonight,had problem with computer but hope to have it fixed tonight. Thanks, Rick
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