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H&R Top Break Cylinder Question- 5" Barrel

2K views 13 replies 4 participants last post by  ShootThaClassics 
#1 · (Edited)
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Picked up this H&R top break parts pile from a family member. Most of it seems to be here and after a little research I realized that this 5" barrel is a little special. So figuring this out has been difficult it seems. I've got it narrowed down to a 2nd model 3rd or 4th variation? Oct 4 87, Apr 2 95, and Apr 7 96. A code 4 digit serial. Target grips with a hammer and no caliber side marks. My dilemma is I need a cylinder and trigger guard. How many shot cylinder am I looking for and how universal are the trigger guards. I know it's self ejecting but I'm confused- Is this a .22? Where the old .22 bullets smaller then today's? I test fit a .22 long and it seemed too big. There's a .22 barrel on eBay and has the exact same 3 patent dates as mine. But there are so many .32 and .38 parts and I'm not sure what works on what. H&R had so many options and no good source other than you guys and "RIP" Bills information. Thanks for any help you guys have.
 
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#6 ·
I've first got to say that I am not an expert on these guns, but we do have a few on the forum. Hopefully they will be along to help you. I do have to ask - when you said you "test fit" a newer .22, what do you mean? What didn't fit?

Since the common .22 short rimfire cartridge was invented back in the 1850s I am going to guess that the first ones were black powder, but a .22 caliber was the same size in 1857 as it is in 2016.

I would hold off on looking for parts until some of out knowledgeable people give you more information than I can.
 
#7 ·
What you have is a H&R Premier, 1st Model, 3rd Variation. It was made between 1897 and 1898 and is a blackpowder gun. And with a 4 digit serial number, I'd lean towards 1897 as the production year.

It should be chambered in .22Long Rifle, but it could have been chambered in .22Long. Modern .22Short should be safe to shoot in it, and very limited digestion of .22LR may be okay so long as it isn't "Hi-Velocity" .22LR. I'm not talking the hyper-velocity .22's like Mini-mag, Stingers, etc - I'm talking High Velocity. (there is a difference between standard .22LR and High-Velocity) The hyper-velocity is completely out of the question.

The cylinder should be 7 shot.

The 5" barrel would command an additional 20% premium over the value of the standard 3" barrel Premier.
 
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#9 ·
I've first got to say that I am not an expert on these guns, but we do have a few on the forum. Hopefully they will be along to help you. I do have to ask - when you said you "test fit" a newer .22, what do you mean? What didn't fit?

Since the common .22 short rimfire cartridge was invented back in the 1850s I am going to guess that the first ones were black powder, but a .22 caliber was the same size in 1857 as it is in 2016.

I would hold off on looking for parts until some of out knowledgeable people give you more information than I can.
Thanks for the info. I'm not real knowledgeable about black powder cartridge weapons. Any advice is good advice to me right now. By test fitting I mean I checked bullet size compared to the bore opening and they seemed off. But after further inspection realized the bore is super dirty- to the point of barely seeing any rifling. I'm going to have to do a thorough cleaning and have a gunsmith check it before I shoot it. Thank you for your help.
 
#11 ·
What you have is a H&R Premier, 1st Model, 3rd Variation. It was made between 1897 and 1898 and is a blackpowder gun. And with a 4 digit serial number, I'd lean towards 1897 as the production year.

It should be chambered in .22Long Rifle, but it could have been chambered in .22Long. Modern .22Short should be safe to shoot in it, and very limited digestion of .22LR may be okay so long as it isn't "Hi-Velocity" .22LR. I'm not talking the hyper-velocity .22's like Mini-mag, Stingers, etc - I'm talking High Velocity. (there is a difference between standard .22LR and High-Velocity) The hyper-velocity is completely out of the question.

The cylinder should be 7 shot.

The 5" barrel would command an additional 20% premium over the value of the standard 3" barrel Premier.
Awesome! Thank you. The 3 patent dates had me thrown off a little. I was going off of an old post that was on this forum and it seemed to put me in that range. I came across a barrel and parts for a .22 listed on EBay and noticed it had the same patent dates. I will probably buy that parts kit just to have a 3 1/2" barrel as well- make a nice box set. Unfortunately no cylinder with it.
More questions:
Will the .32 and .38 parts- besides barrel and cylinder - work on the .22?
Did they have a .22 long and a short cylinder offered- just so I get the right one?
Were they also auto ejecting?
Thank you very much for your time and info!
 
#13 · (Edited)
Awesome! Thank you. The 3 patent dates had me thrown off a little. I was going off of an old post that was on this forum and it seemed to put me in that range. I came across a barrel and parts for a .22 listed on EBay and noticed it had the same patent dates. I will probably buy that parts kit just to have a 3 1/2" barrel as well- make a nice box set. Unfortunately no cylinder with it.
More questions:
Will the .32 and .38 parts- besides barrel and cylinder - work on the .22?
Did they have a .22 long and a short cylinder offered- just so I get the right one?
Were they also auto ejecting?
Thank you very much for your time and info!
Some of the .32cal parts for the small frame will work, like: springs, grips, pins, trigger, and other internals. If the hammer has the firing pin on the hammer, then the hammer will not(rimfire versus centerfire).

The .38cal parts will not. The .38caliber H&R topbreaks were large frame guns, you have a small frame gun.

They all should have been .22LR for that period. But sometimes an oddball slips out the factory, or a worker didn't run the reamer all the way. When I suggested being able to shoot .22Short, it was because of the gun being a blackpowder era gun, which the .22Short ammo of today shouldn't stress the gun.
 
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#12 · (Edited)
Is it this one Knight? https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufa...son-33274/Revolvers-36449/22Special-38071.htm

Nope, answered my own question - this should be the right one but has no cylinder available at this time. :( https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufa...274/Revolvers-36449/OldModelPremier-38143.htm
The .22 Special was a large frame gun made well after 1905. (9 shot .22LR or 7 shot .22WRF). What the OP has is the Premier, which is a small frame gun.

Numrich refers to this model as the "Old Model Premier" and the "Old Model Small Frame Automatic". (basically the same gun)

Keep checking the online auctions, like ********* and GunsAmerica - those cylinders show up from time to time. ...sometimes even on eBay.
 
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