Had Enough Yet ?????

Discussion in 'The Fire For Effect and Totally Politically Incorr' started by jwrauch, Mar 17, 2012.

  1. jwrauch

    jwrauch New Member

    According to the CBO as many as 30 million Americans may lose their healthcare coverage under the healthcare reform act. I have already seen my COBRA premiums go up 25% for 50% less coverage. Thank you pres obamanation !!:mad::mad::mad: JR
  2. Ed~

    Ed~ New Member

    Jan 24, 2012
    What are you saying?

    Your COBRA benefits are the result of private health insurance companies changing their own rules & rates... because they can. You have a choice, buy it or don't buy it, until the Obamacare mandate goes though in 2014 of course. Then you won't have a choice at'all.

    I hear your pain, but suppose you are saying the answer is to lay your life and those you love in the caring hands of private health insurance like Blue Cross Blue Shield and the like?

    So you can pay $100/month for health insurance with a $10,000 deductible which guarantees that you will not go to the doctors unless you get hit by a bus and gives $1,200 of pure profits each year for the health insurance company.

    Oh, that's just what I am paying for my health insurance to BCBS. I'm sure many of you have better coverage for less through your work. I am self-employed and don't have a choice about buying private health insurance. Full coverage where I actually can see a doctor for me at a healthy 150lbs with no chronic illness still costs around $400/month for a $500 deductible policy.

    And no, I don't qualify for Medicaid. I've never taken any hand-outs before in my life and don't plan to anytime soon!

    If you are on Medicare, congratulations... you made it to the Liberal Public Health Insurance Agenda. If you are on some Medicaid program, consider yourself "lucky" for being poor enough to qualify. In either case, kindly shut-up because I am not in the mood for whining about the effects of what the Republican Congress did to under-fund our current public programs to squeeze them to death.

    Both parties are in the pockets of special interest groups now. That's what $1million A Day spending on capital hill buys health insurance companies and PHARMA... yeah look it up.

    "25 Shocking Facts That Prove That The Entire U.S. Health Care Industry Has Become One Giant Money Making Scam" -The American Dream

    I can't remember the last time I went to the hospital or saw a doctor and hope to hell I don't get hit while riding my motorcycle. Wonderful system, this Uniquely American Capitalist Health Insurance scheme.

    If you truly think life would be better under a Free Market Health Insurance scheme where the "competition" drives down the cost of healthcare, I got two words for you: It Won't!

    Because that's exactly what we have right now. Obamacare doesn't go into effect until 2014... and even then it won't do anything to help folks like me except force me to buy more of the same with an Unconstitutional Mandate. :mad:

  3. musclehead

    musclehead New Member

    Mar 1, 2012
    central florida
    still holding my breath for the supreme court to declare the mandate unconstitutional. ( I might turn blue holding it for so long )
  4. jwrauch

    jwrauch New Member

    My gripe is that untill last yr even tho I paid a high price for ins ($400/mo) at least I had good coverage. Health care costs & ins rates have been skyrocketting since Obummer stuck his nose into things. My rate has gone to $500/mo for 25% less coverage!!And this is single coverage.:mad::mad::mad: JR
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2012
  5. raven818

    raven818 Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    Oct 3, 2011
    Jax, Fl.
    March 27th..." should have a response in July ".
    The decision to not allow cameras was the right one, IMO. All the news reporters are blasting it. Of course they are. The perfect opportunity to make a circus out of it, has gone down the drain.

    They agreed ( the SCOTUS ) to have an audio recording of the proceedings released to the public w/in two hours. That in itself is amazing. But how can the news comment on all the pain/suffering/glee/disdain/anger/blah/blah/blah on the faces of those involved, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, for three months, if they don't have access?

    Now all we will have available to us is the talking heads, giving their opinions on each and every word spoken during the case, again, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, for three months.

    I'm going to do some serious movie/hunting/gun, DVR'ing, and wait for July.
  6. gvw3

    gvw3 Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    Oct 16, 2011
    Chicago IL Area
    The Obama administration is owned by the insurance company's. The republicans are no better. Health care in this country is out of control. Most people are to young to remember health care in this country was non profit until the Nixon administration. It was affordable and good back them.
  7. Ed~

    Ed~ New Member

    Jan 24, 2012
    You know it! Health Insurance Execs were the first to visit the oval office after he was sworn in.

    You got that right! Medicare Part D (donuthole) was a present from W. and the Republican Congress to Big PHARMA!

    Don't we know it! The result of Privatizing Healthcare with schemes like Health Savings Accounts etc...

    That's it. You hit the damn nail right on the head.

    Doctors and Hospitals have a right to make a profit... just not the right to rape you financially while you are on their operating table. Every other country limits the amount of money that Health Providers can make for procedures. Our's don't. We're unique... some say backward.

    Health Insurance, on the other hand, certainly does not have to make a profit for basic health coverage. They don't have to take .30 cents of every healthcare dollar to pay for their overhead, advertising, and CEO salaries. They provide a very simple service that Medicare does for .03 cents per dollar right now!

    Think of it, wouldn't you rather know that .97 cents of every health insurance dollar actually goes to help yourself, your family, or your neighbors stay healthy? Or are you happy that 30% is going to private jets, gold-plated silverware, and fillet-mignon:

    This whole system stinks. It's rancid from the inside out. Hard working Americans are dying for lack of healthcare when their job gets outsourced. They are losing their houses because of hospital bills here and nowhere else in the industrialized world!

    And here's the rub... we are paying enough for Full Coverage for Every American right now! The people of the United States are paying more than any other people in the world into a private, for-profit system while 50 million Americans remain uninsured. Another 29 million are like me, no real insurance. If I end up in the hospital for any serious injury, I stand to lose my house. We are talking over 30% of Americans here folks! who have to worry about this crap. It's not our fault. The game is rigged!

    Those who that can afford health insurance are being jacked like Jwrauch here with higher rates each year and lower coverage amounts. It's rigged!

    Every employer in this country that's wishing health insurance can be taken off their backs; wishing their employees could just be healthier and more productive to compete economically with every other industrialized country!

    Nobody is happy with the current system. It doesn't have to be this way. The only death panels now are in the private health insurance companies. No one should be able to tell any doctor what procedures or medicines is allowed based on some damn policy that is designed to maximize profits, not save lives or keep people healthy. That's sick! It's disgusting. I say it's not human, nor American!

    There is another way... One Policy: Full Coverage; No Deductibles; No Preconditions: $300/month.

    It's called Medicare for All. Non-profit health insurance for every American.
  8. Python

    Python Former Guest

    Apr 9, 2011
    Just the opposite, too much control.
  9. jwrauch

    jwrauch New Member

    AS a retired HC professional, I can tell you from personal experience that the more govt gets involved the more hc costs will increase. If you ever reasearch the increase in costs you will see that costs didn't start skyrocketting untill Medicare started up as a part of LBJ's "Great Society" program. Its simple economics really; increase demand and prices always go up unless you drastically increase supply. JR:eek::eek::eek:
  10. Ed~

    Ed~ New Member

    Jan 24, 2012
    Hey JR,

    Remember when they passed a law that prohibits US seniors from buying prescription medicines from Canada? Why is that? Because those drugs were inferior or dangerous? No. Because the same drugs were cheaper due to their government's bargaining powers with the drug companies.

    Or consider that Wal-mart can sell for lowers prices by selling more stuff... by creating more demand! Economics of higher Volume is also simple economics.

    Everything I wrote is based on personal comparisons with the Taiwan healthcare system (I have dual citizenship) and my (Nurse Practitioner) wife's Japanese healthcare system (she also holds dual citizenship). Everyone is covered, meaning more customers consuming more healthcare, meaning lower (Wal-mart style) prices.


    Just look what actually happens when Governments manage a not-for-profit program of managing healthcare costs for all their citizens. Collective Bargaining Power for services and prescription drugs, no mandating anything on We the People.

    Just think, an MRI can cost as little as $280 in other countries while here it costs Americans $1,080. WTF? -Did Obama do that? No the free-market did.

    We don't have a 'Healthcare Plan' in the States as much as a Free Market Capitalism scheme. It results in the most expensive healthcare costs of any country in the world... for those who can afford it. The less people who pay for services or premiums, the more expensive they become to keep company profits the same.

    Get it? Prices go up when you lose demand because they've become unaffordable for certain life necessities! That's why your premiums are going up while your coverage go down. Because more Americans are dropping their health insurance to pay for basic needs of survival when they lose their jobs or income. Health Insurance Companies are raising your rates to stay profitable when two or three other people stop paying premiums.

    That is the other (dark) side of "supply and demand" when it comes to healthcare. Because all companies know that money is meaningless when we are sick they prey on our basic need for healthcare and health insurance. This shameful game only collapses when there is no more demand... because the majority of us can no longer afford to buy it!

    But of course, they managed to pass a law through OBAMACARE to force The People to buy private health insurance in 2014... rather than change the shameful game, they've cemented it in place.
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2012
  11. raven818

    raven818 Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    Oct 3, 2011
    Jax, Fl.
    To add. The news this morning announced the original costs projected by bHo of 900 million, after a closer look, has been changed to 2.6 billion. Woops. His bad.

    Well, what's a little thing like triple the costs mean anyway? We're just going to have to dig a bit deeper into our pockets.
  12. Ed~

    Ed~ New Member

    Jan 24, 2012
    The Good News in Healthcare

    Here is a new PBS show a friend emailed me.

    It's about saving lives and saving money, People helping People, communities showing true leadership and NOT a leaderless Gov't spinning lies... And it is amazing!


    Why can't we all have this?
  13. gvw3

    gvw3 Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    Oct 16, 2011
    Chicago IL Area
    Obama care didn't address the core issue. COST. How are citizens mandated to buy health care insurance going to pay for it if they can't afford it. There are just to many people making to much money on this scam.

    Most Americans won't do anything until this touches them. Once they see members of their family die because they couldn't get insurance at a price they can afford they will wake up. Obama care says they have to give you insurance but they have no limit on what they can charge you.

    We are the only industrialized country in the world that allows this scam.
  14. Ed~

    Ed~ New Member

    Jan 24, 2012
    Managed Cost

    That's right, Gvw3. My wife works at a community health clinic. She sees eighteen (!) patients a day on average. Most of them are poor and on State Medicaid but not all.

    They find that costs are lower for patients that are generally healthier compared with the seriously ill.

    No Duh...

    By following that line of logic the operations managers have sought to get reimbursed a different way than the traditional "pay per visit" model. You see, they don't currently get money for any telephone calls or any health maintenance contacts with the patients that are so important. The current system encourages patients to visit when they become SICK because that is how the clinics (and hospitals/doctors) get reimbursed!

    That is not Healthcare... that is Sick-care.

    This is a very expensive way to go, both in terms of resources spent and sick-days off from work for the economy as a whole. What my wife's clinic wants to do is similar to what we saw in the video that other health organizations have already done: pool the resources and get a lump sum to maintain each patient's health rather than bill for each sick visit. Hopefully they can pull it off, and soon.

    How to best manage the resources is one of the major issues in affordable healthcare for every American. The other is the cost of health insurance programs. Neither of these are truly addressed by Obamamcare --nor The Market when the primary motive is greed masked as profits rather than efficiency. In truth, Obamacare is still relying on The Market by forcing everyone to buy private health insurance -regardless of how poorly the insurance covers. Obamacare mandate does nothing to pressure the system to become more efficient.

    Organizations only become efficient when they are constrained by limitations and get smart. That is the American Way! It's what made this the strongest country in the world! But currently we have a bunch of greedy, stupid people in health insurance living off the greatness of previous generations; evident by their willingness to engage in corrupting the government and political process rather than tackling the challenges. The True Challenge is providing basic affordable healthcare to every American -that every other civilized country in the world currently does for their citizens- not maximizing profits while Americans suffer and die.

    A shame really. Shameful for Americans to allow this amount of ineptitude to continue.
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2012
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