had to chamber 30-30 brass ????

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by soundguy, Jun 3, 2012.

  1. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    fell into kinda of a good deal I guess. ( maybee..)

    one of my shooting buddies wife's EX was into reloading.. apparrently had a lee handloader..

    anyway, ex has been gone for years, and buddy has now married this gal. while cleaning out a closet they found a bag of 30-30 brass and a 2-die set of pacific dies. gave em to me.

    bag had about 51 30-30 spent brass, mixed headstamps.. some with silver primers.. some with brass colored primers.. some of the silver were quite rounded.. thus guessing older.. etc.. ) after looking them over, i noticed 7 cartridges had live primers. also found a single 308 cartridge in there.. well.. it measures as 308.. but has an unrecognizeable headstamp, and is a crimped primer.. so i take it it was a 7.62x51 milsurp in it's previous life. is boxer primed as evidenced by peering down neck.. anyway...

    I decided to deactivate the primers and then demprime and size and trim like all the others so they will be uniform.

    grabbed my savage 340 bolt action 30-30 and stepped outside with ear plugs in to quickly deactivate them. problem.. couldn't get the bolt to finish closing on any of the brass.. it want say.. 90% into battery.. bolt handle just wouldn't drop the last 1/4 to 3/8" to get it into battery. i even tried a lil persuasion with my palm giving bolt handle a rap.. no going... shells withdrew fine. i looke dthem over.. nothing obvious lept out at me as an issue..

    decided to grab my LA marlin 336 and see what happened. popped the action open and fed a case in manually vs doing the tube feed deal so as to not distort case mouth.. etc. action closed say.. 95% and with a lil hand grip pressure, I got the action happy enough that it would fire.. I could tell it was still a tad tight and i was probably really at about 98%.. in any case.. i popped all the primers and brought them back in to deprime and resize with the rest of them.

    so what's the deal? what did I just see? all the cases passed my lyman case gauge, though were all at or near max sammi spec of 2.039.. most were 2.038ish.. and after deprime and resize.. all were 2.039 with a very small amount at 2.040. I'll trim down to 2.030 ( i know the trim to is 2.029 but I add .001 to all my trim to lengths to make up for id/od deburing after trimming. in any case.. all my cases are still uniformed for my purposes.. etc.

    so ... all cases were at max sammi spec.. but still within / meeting max.

    the bolt savage 340 just would not digest them period. the LA 336 marlin begrudgingly swallowed them.

    do i infer that the weapon they had been fired in previously had headspace issues or otherwise illfit chamber?

    anyway.. I will trim a couple, and see what they do in both chambers. may even load 1 dummy to correct col/coal with no primer and powder, and then check fit in my savage and marlin.

    if they are not chambering.. I guess the brass is useless and goes in the recycle bucket huh?


    lastly. I must say.. I don't like the pacific dies. I'm used to rsbs, c&h and a single lee.. I liek the setup and feel and ease of adjustment better. only thing i like on the pacfic was the locking collar used a shrinking band, not a set screw. and yes.. i did disassemble the dies and clean them fully, and they did need it.. no rust.. just dust and reminant of old case lube / gum.. got it all out.. cleaned deprime pin and resizer ball.. etc.. etc.

    no time to setup the seater die or do anything else tonight.. waiting to hear back with specualtion as to what I experienced.

    thanks
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2012
  2. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    It does not, to me, sound like they are too long. Sounds like the shoulder is too far forward.

    That tells me they were most likely fired in a slightly oversize chamber, and when they were resized, the sizing die was not set correctly.

    Or, possibly, knowing that the chamber was slightly oversize, the sizing die was set to do a neck-size, so an NOT to move the shoulder back, since excessive shrinking and expanding leads to shortened case life.

    Either way, set the dies up correctly and I don't think you will have any more problems.
  3. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    once i get some more bench time I'll set the seating die up and load up a dummy and see if it chambers.
  4. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    ok, update.. couldn't sleep.

    went in.. set up and FL resized 5 pieces of brass, then trimmed., made 1 dummy round with no primer/charge, and seated and crimped it to correct coal.

    the empty 4 shells and the 1 loaded dummy WILL chamber in the savage 340 with just a hair more than normal pressure. ie.. you feel just a tad bit of snug as you are dropping the bolt handle into it's lock.. vs factory ammo. and I do mean a hair. no 'forcing' or smaking with a palm. just a regual manipulation of the bolt gets it closed.. but you feel the difference vs factory ammo. the marlin 336 swallows it now with no notice at all.. just like factory. my guess is that savage has a very tight chamber, and the 336 not so tight.. and whatever these shells were fired in before had a loosey goosey chamber.

    in any case. it's taking more than moderate pressure to resize the cases.. but they are going..
  5. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    so.. cases too long at the shoulder?

    loose chamber from previous owners gun?

    maybee an older lever action.. or?
  6. BobMcG

    BobMcG Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    I'm with Alpo all the way on this. And, with the thinking that it's quite likely they were only neck resized on purpose.
  7. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    it deffinately felt like they had been neck sized only. i lubed them good but it's slow going on the resizing.

    i have my die setup in a lee c press for the decap and resize. but my buddy just called me and found 2 more bags of brass. if they are all like this.. i may temporarilly move the resize die over to my rock chucker to get more leverage.. that's the press i normally have my seat and crimp dies on.. etc.

    must have been a darn loose chamber in whatever gun fired that brass...
  8. BobMcG

    BobMcG Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    You have my curiosity up. What brand have you been using for resizing up to now over the greater leverage RCBS press?
  9. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    like I said. i have a lee C press on one side of my bench, and an rcbs rock chucker on the other side. i like the 2 station setup. i can leave both my deprime/sze die and my seater dies setup run a batch thru one side then roll my chair 2' over and start seating, witht he powder thrower inthe middle, and my hand primer to the rigt of that. deprime, size, trim/measure/debur, prime, charge, seat. my trimmer is setup on a side table so i just swivel to the right for that step. usually do a bucket of brass at each function / station. i got a great buy on shell holders from a pawn shop selling out of reload gear, so got shell holders for 2-3$ each.. so grabbed 3 of each caliber i wanted.. thus I can leave seprime/size, hand primer, and seater all setup at one each with their own shell holder. my holders are a mix of lee and rcbs. seems the hand primer prefers the rcbs SH's though.

    soundguy
  10. BobMcG

    BobMcG Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Duh, you're right... brain fart.

    I guess my real question was if there was a particular reason for using the RCBS as the tool for seating and crimping over the LEE or just the way they ended up?

    BTW: It too have a RCBS on one end of one of my benches and a LEE at the other, but for different reasons.
  11. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    kinda just the way it ended up.. however in the future I plan on reloading some big brass and wanted the large throat relaoder doinghte seating and crimping.. I will eventually reload 375H&Hmag and 416rigby.. not sure that lil Lee c press is up to it.

    also.. the piston on the rcbs rock chucker is like an ince wide.. and onthe rcbs it's like a half inch.. :) really no comparison in quality on that lee c press and the rcbs. mind you.. the price difference was also huge.. the lee press was like 20$ :)

    so, you have a lee on one side and rcbs on the other as well? :)
  12. BobMcG

    BobMcG Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Thanks, gottcha.

    A Rockchucker Supreme on one end for large rifle reloading and a LEE Challenger on the other end set up to do 12ga brass shotgun shells exclusively. This requires the 7/8" adapter to be removed so it saves me having to upset my RCBS which has been converted to the Hornady Lock-N-Load system anyhow. Saves converting back and forth between 7/8" & 1" dies.

    (A blue machine on another bench does my pistol and small rifle rounds.)
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2012
  13. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    neat.

    while the wife was packing for a trip last night, I sat and deprimed and fl sized about 300 assorted 30-30 cases. the bulk of them I was given. tough work on some of them. :)

    I got about 150 of them trimmed and primer pocket cleaned, uniformed and flash hole cleaned up. figure another hour on it tonight, and then I'll ziplock bag up my brass into 50rnd lots and toss back into the box .. might make up a few test loads to see what i can come up with for accuracy on my savage 340 BA 30-30. since it's a boltgun I can load pointy projectiles.. :) will make another post on that though.. :)
  14. Hammerslagger

    Hammerslagger New Member

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    typoCases that have been fired and reloaded an unknown number of times (and exhibit problems like described above) may be at the end of their service life, and have little value compared to the firearms that they might be fired in and wreck.

    MAKE SURE (using an accurate measuring instrument) THAT THE NECK DIAMETER OF YOUR LOADED ROUNDS DOES NOT EXCEED, THE MAX BLUE-PRINT DIMENSION. As little as 0.002" oversize can cause major problems in a MMC (tight) chamber.
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2012
  15. soundguy

    soundguy Well-Known Member

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    i own a good dial caliper set and have case gauges. every case that felt more difficult than normal to resize, or that had difficulty chambering, I gauged.. etc, and then rechecked afterwards.. etc.

    I did end up tossing a few cartridges that i felt were at the end of their road, plus a few more that showed signs of splits or fissures, etc. narrow belting/banding.. etc.

    it was a mix of cases.. lots of headstamps I feel that 2 and really.. probably 3 guns were digesting those cases. i've sorted by headstamp, and that seems to also hold true on 'look' the oldest win stamps are also the ones with a darker patina. the hornady are the newest looking, with the rems looing good and the newer wins perhaps relaoded mroe than once... I have them sorted into those groups.. after i load a few and test them I can decide whether to drop a batch into the recylcling box. ie.. if the newer wins.. the ones that I think have the most laods on them.. if i am getting hard to lift bolts or hard extractions or other signs of bulging or case falure or seperation.. web damage.. neck thickening.. etc. I don't mind tossing the batch there's somewhere around 50 in the batch I'm really looking at.. and really no monetary loss... my savage bolt gun has the most picky chamber.. and is also a gunshow 100$ special.. so it's a good test gun.
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