handgun advice

Discussion in 'Self Defense Tactics & Weapons' started by Guest, Feb 23, 2003.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    SouthernMoss
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    (1/1/03 10:55:55 am)
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    I am pretty much a gun novice, other than knowing how to use and take care of the two guns I own: a .22 Glenfield rifle and a .25 Raven MP25 Auto. A family friend has taken an interest in my personal safety and, being concerned that the Raven was not powerful enough, offered me a used Derringer. When he brought the Derringer over, he also brought a new Charter Undercover .38 revolver, boot cut, hammerless. I really like the Charter; it's lightweight and fits my small hand. (I'm a woman just under 5' tall.) The Derringer is an Excam .38 . Novice that I am, I looked up both guns on the 'net to see what I could find out. What I found on the Excam Derringer was a warning that it is a "junk gun", "Saturday Night Special", dangerously flawed , poor construction, prone to unintentional discharge. This sounded scary, but the site went on to attack Remington bolt-action rifles and Glock pistols, among others. It seemed to be an alarmist site.

    So, I guess I have two questions. The first: should I be wary of the Excam Derringer, and perhaps even give it back to my friend?... And the second: any comments on the other guns that I own?

    warpig883
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    (1/1/03 12:38:10 pm)
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    ezSupporter
    Re: handgun advice
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    Welcome to TFF SOuthernMoss

    I am by no means an expert but I think that all of the guns you described are junkers except for the .22 rifle.

    Some of the others around here who are more knowledgable about those specific weapons will jump in with some more info.
    Ignorance is a crime in 49 states. In the other one it is bliss.

    LIKTOSHOOT
    *TFF Senior Staff*
    Posts: 6757
    (1/1/03 12:57:44 pm)
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    The Raven and Excam, wouldn`t make a cheap ashtray. The little rifle is fine.
    The Charter Arms undercover is just fine and just at the right power factor for self-defense. I would have no problem with it, on or off a budget. WELCOME TOO, always nice to see a fresh face...enjoy and HAPPY NEW YEAR!!



    LTS



    Zigzag2
    *TFF Senior Staff*
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    (1/1/03 2:02:14 pm)
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    Welcome to The Firearms Forum SouthernMoss.
    Something is better than nothing, you can always use the 2 less desireable pieces as headknockers.... opppssss, I mean door knockers

    Bob In St Louis
    *TFF Senior Staff*
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    (1/1/03 2:34:46 pm)
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    I go with LTS - I think the Charter Arms Undercover is a suitable defense handgun - just practice a lot with it to be comfortable in knowing how it performs. Secondly, find what kind of concealment carry holster/rig you wish to use, and practice with it also.

    TallTLynn
    *TFF Senior Staff*
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    (1/1/03 2:35:17 pm)
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    ezSupporter
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    The Charter .38 is probably the best of the bunch (excluding the rifle). Good weapon, doesn't kick a huge amount (though it will kick to a degree) and far better than the .22 Raven for defense. You really and truly need to take them out and shoot them - but the deringer would not be my choice of weapon at all.


    Xracer
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    (1/1/03 4:22:20 pm)
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    Hi SouthernMoss.......Forget the derringer, it is indeed a piece of junk.....and any derringer in a large enough caliber to be useful, is virtually uncontrollable. The Raven .25 is a cute little gun, but don't ever shoot anybody with it....you might annoy them.

    For a small woman, the Charter Arms would seem to be ideal. If it's comfortable to you, great. See if your friend will let you shoot it.....that's the real test. If you like the way it shoots, and can consistantly hit a pie plate at 20 feet you've found your gun.

    SouthernMoss
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    (1/1/03 6:40:43 pm)
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    Thanks everyone for your input. The friend "sold" me both guns for $1, so they are mine to keep. I'll probably just put the derringer away, though, and never use it, although the ashtray and door knocker ideas sound interesting. I knew the Raven was a pea shooter, but the ex got all the good guns, since he is the gun enthusiast. He wanted the rifle also, since he used it to get rid of squirrels in the pecan trees, but it was his Christmas gift to me years ago, and I was comfortable shooting it, so I insisted that I keep it.

    I had hoped to shoot the Charter Arms this afternoon at my brother-in-law's place in the country, but things didn't work out. I have arranged to go out this weekend, though.

    Bob mentioned holsters/rigs. Any tips on what to look for or to avoid in purchasing one?

    SouthernMoss
    Member
    Posts: 6
    (1/4/03 5:22:34 pm)
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    Hi guys. An update on my story.... I took the Charter2000 pistol out to shoot today, and I think it's going to work out fine. With no hammer, the trigger pull was a little tough at first (remember, my hands are small, like a child's, so I don't get as much leverage as you big-handed guys), but I got used to that fairly quickly.

    Xracer... I'm still not as consistent as I'd like to be at 20 feet yet, but I'm getting there! I only got to shoot 20-25 rounds this time (just barely enough to get warmed up, right?). Next time, hopefully I'll be able to shoot longer.

    TallTLynn... As a woman, what do you use to carry your weapon? I've looked at various holsters, purses, fanny packs...but I'm not sure what would be best.

    Anyone else that wants to jump in with advice, please do.


    TallTLynn
    *TFF Senior Staff*
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    (1/4/03 6:56:15 pm)
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    ezSupporter
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    SouthernMoss - I picked up a fanny pack which they told me would never hold a full size Beretta 92F or for that matter my 45acp. Both fit the pack just fine and left me room for a checkbook in the other compartment, my CCW permit and so forth.

    They have purses in varying sizes designed for concealed carry of a weapon as well - both online and whenever a gun show is in town - check them out because you can find some nice stuff at times.

    Since I don't wear loose clothing (well I do but a holster wouldn't work with most of them - though I do have a shoulder rig for the Beretta as well) I tend to go with the fanny pack myself. But all in all you'll want to try out several different items.

    And as for hitting what you aim at - practice makes perfect!


    ruffitt
    *TFF Senior Staff*
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    (1/5/03 8:13:25 am)
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    ezSupporter
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    SouthernMoss -

    Sorry I can not give you a recommendation on how to carry your weapon. I will say though, I carry my Kahr K40 in an IWB (Inside The Waistband) holster. It just may be feasible for you to use an IWB holster. However that would require wearing slacks combined with a blouse or sweater that is not tucked in, and a belt to do.

    Here's a small tip for you. It is not the amount of time or the number of rounds you shoot down range that counts. What does count is the quantity and quality of effort you put into your shooting sessions. There is no sense in shooting 50 rounds in 30 minutes if your arm gets tired, your hand begins stinging because of the recoil and your fingers start cramping from the pulling of the trigger. It is by far better to shoot 20 - 25 rounds over the course of an hour and practice on your stance, hold, sight picture, trigger squeeze to begin with, then gradually move up in your range time and number of rounds expended. Mighty buildings are not erected in a single day; they must have the "ground work(basics)" completed first; natural progression continues until it is finished. The same applies to your shooting endeavors,

    Regards






    SouthernMoss
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    (1/5/03 9:28:07 am)
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    After much online research and shopping, I have come to the conclusion that I need more than one type of carry: a fanny pack or an IWB for more casual occasions, and a purse for dressy occasions. I hope to purchase all three soon and begin practicing with each.

    That's good advice, ruffit, on practicing. I will keep it in mind.
  2. Logansdad

    Logansdad New Member

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    Glasers would really help out that Raven...nobody's going to shrug off a .25 ACP caliber Glaser Safety Slug...I'm sure there are quite a few dead men that didn't think a .25 could kill them
  3. parcival

    parcival New Member

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    I've been shooting for about twenty years now, and in that time i've owned everything from little pocket .22 "mouse guns" too .50 revolvers, and i'm always amazed at how much people put down the smaller caliber guns.

    One of the first gns i ever bought was actually a little raven mp-25, and i can count how many times it's misfired or stove piped in all the thousands of rounds i've put through it on one hand.

    On the subject of "stopping" or "killing" power of these lil guys, i agree with logans dad "I'm sure there are quite a few dead men that didn't think a .25 could kill them".

    In closeing i have a frined who works washington state patrol that carries a small pocket .25 for back up, and have talked to countless trauma and emt employees that all vouch for the definate deadliness of small caliber guns, I generaly find most people hard on small guns either have never owned one, or prefer 1911 .45's.

    I do hope no one takes this as an attack, i'm just saying even small guns kill people, ravens , in my opinion, are great lil starter guns, easy to work on, cheap to replace parts in, inexspensive ammo, and reliable , i don't know if you can really ask for alot more?
  4. Ursus

    Ursus New Member

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    Wellcome aboard parcival!!! You're right a .25 can kill, but what you want here is a stopper. (They are not the same thing, you know). After all a 2inch blade can kill as well but I'd rather have a .45.
  5. Your point is well taken, Bear. It does little good to nail an assailant with a small caliber handgun and have him fall over dead . . . 20 minutes after he nails you with a big ol' club! :D I do think parcival has a point though. The little .22, .25, and .32 autos are not very good man stoppers, granted, but several rounds delivered quickly will ruin anyone's day, and sometimes it is simply not possible to properly conceal a larger handgun.
  6. southernshooter

    southernshooter New Member

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    WElcome Parcilval
  7. RimfireRat

    RimfireRat New Member

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    :eek: What you say in true, BUT the idea of a carry gun is to STOP the deadly threat to your person. IMHO the threat to your person would continue long enough before he becomes a dead man that you could possibly be one also .:( There have been cases where in winter with heavey wool or leather coats on the 25 (even HPs) would be slowed enough going thru the clothing they barely would break skin.HP s would be rendered solids by the coat material filling the HP thus never would get to do it's job. Your load to a T shirt emptied to the chest at pointblank would work.;) maybe?. Some guys don't go down with bigger guns when they should.I remember reading a story where this biker dude was shot 18 times with a 9mm by the Ill. statre police and just kept firing back like they were missing. the Ill.SP changed the loads they were using after that if I remmeber right.--JMJ--
  8. stash247

    stash247 New Member

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    Logansdad tried to say it, but did not quite get to the point; it's not what you stick 'em with, but how well, and accurately, they are stuck!
    A 'brain shot' man, whether with a .22, .25, or a .45, is out of action, before he hits the floor; larger calibers simply provide more room for error, with essentially the same results.
    My son in law is a cop, a State Trooper, and they have some political hurdles a private citizen does not; my insight here, is that they do not, out of political position, want a killing, when a wounding would do!
    A private citizen faces less challenge: if 'deadly force' is justified, in the situation,a 'dead body' reduces the stories to one, in the report.
    If one is going to carry a 'mouse gun', he or she , ought to practice with it til it points like their finger, and hits at the point of aim. Anything less is a fools delusion.
  9. Well and truly spoken, Stash. It's like trying to smack an angry hornet with a news paper. Y'all better be sure you smack that sucker HARD the first time, and then keep on smaking him until he can't wiggle anymore! I very rarely carry a small caliber handgun, preferring instead something in at least the 9mm or .40 range, but sometimes a "mouse gun" is all I can hide. For example, last evening my wife and I attended my annual holiday party hosted by the school where I teach. It's held at a country club way to hell and gone out on the edge of town. The parking lot is not well lighted, and it is usually rather late when the party breaks up. Not long ago there was a report to local police that some guests at another party had been acosted as they got into their cars to leave. Anyway, there was no way in God's green earth that was was going to attend without at least a minimal weapon on my person. Unfortunately, the clothing I wore was light, just a casual shirt over slacks, no coat. I knew that the "powers that be" (bless their short-sighted, politically correct souls) would have had a coronary at even a hint that I was carrying iron. My solution was my Beretta .32 Tomcat in an IWB. Nobody (except my wife! :D ) had even the remotest idea I was packing, yet I still had at least a credible means of defense at hand should it be needed. Choosing a carry gun is, I think, largely governed by the circumstances of carry. I would have felt more comfortable with my Glock 33 or one of my other regular carry weapons, but the Beretta served its purpose nonetheless.
  10. delta13soultaker

    delta13soultaker New Member

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    Three accurate shots at three feet in three seconds from recognition of threat....train for that and a pocket gun is a viable survival tool. Seek cover/gain distance/assess hazards
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