Harrington & Richardson 38

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by Fl Girl, Oct 23, 2011.

  1. Fl Girl

    Fl Girl New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2011
    Messages:
    2
    My Grandfather just passed and I now have his gun. I'm just looking for some information about it. I haven't been able to find out too much online. On the top of the barrel it says "Harrington & Richardson Arms Co. Worcester, Mass. USA" and on the side it says "38 cal S&W ctge" The serial number is 112103.

    Attached Files:

  2. Fl Girl

    Fl Girl New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2011
    Messages:
    2
    Here is one more picture

    Attached Files:

  3. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2008
    Messages:
    2,976
    Location:
    Lehigh Valley, PA
    FlGirl,
    Welcome to the forum. My condolences on the passing of your Grandfather.

    Your Granddad's gun is an H&R 2nd Model LARGE FRAME HAMMERLESS 4th Variation. It was made between 1913 and 1915. The serial number is low in the noted range - so year of manufacture is probably 1913. It has the "standard" 3 1/4" barrel, but the blued finish is scarce in this early variation and adds some value.
    Looking at your excellent pics it appears, to me, that the gun is in low VERY GOOD condition - there is some surface wear in various spots where you would expect to see wear on a gun that was carried quite a bit, but you can also tell that he took very good care of it - from the inside shots.
    The cartridge for that gun is the .38 SMITH & WESSON (not .38 S&W SPECIAL) and is usually a 146 gr. lead bullet. Your gun was made for smokeless/Nitro powder and should be able to handle any current factory ammo.
    I'm sure you don't care, because of the heritage value - but your gun is, in my estimation, worth around $235 +/- $35 at RETAIL - I hope you plan to keep it and pass it along.
  4. Glock40boys

    Glock40boys New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2011
    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Deep in the heart of East Texas
    I have a H&R 38 S&W CTGE top break revolver. i was tod it is not safe to shoot this gun but i have shot it several times but it is loose so i cant sell it so i took it apart and found a broken spring that fell out in the process of taking it apart i need a place to buy parts for this gun as well as a exploded view of this gun so i know how to put everything back together to make it safe to shoot
  5. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2008
    Messages:
    2,976
    Location:
    Lehigh Valley, PA
    Glock40boys,
    Welcome to the forum we need to know exactly what you have before we can tell you anything about it so please provide more information like markings on the top of the barrel and on the sides and how many shots it has and a serial number will help also and maybe even tell us where the spring that fell out came from and what it looks like then we can probably give you a pic of an exploded parts diagram with numbered parts list and then tell you where to look for the parts.
  6. StoneChimney

    StoneChimney New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,086
    Im almost certain it is the trigger return spring since it is very often broken on these old guns but there are different sizes though and they do not interchange and if you can post a picture of the broken spring and the information jim asked for we can certainly help
  7. Glock40boys

    Glock40boys New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2011
    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Deep in the heart of East Texas
    thanks guys, on top of the barrel it says harrington & richardson Co worcester, mass usa, on the side of the barrel says 38 S&W CTGE it is a 5 shot with extracter on it the grip is plastic with a target logo at the top of it. it has a hammer on it and the serial number is 343978 and the spring is the only coil spring in it...it fell out of the trigger housing while tapping out the pin hold the front of the trigger guard on. my intial problem was when the hammer cocked back the chamber still moved a lil bit so it was deemed un shootable but as long as you double action it it fires on the money every time.
  8. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2008
    Messages:
    2,976
    Location:
    Lehigh Valley, PA
    Glock40boys,
    Sounds like you have a 3rd Model AUTOMATIC EJECTING 3rd Variation (1913-1915). It was made to handle smokeless/Nitro powder loads - so if in safe condition to fire, it can handle any of the modern factory loaded .38 S&W (NOT SPECIAL) ammo. With that serial number it was most likely made in mid 1914 (just an edjumacated guess based upon known serial numbers).
    IMHO, Stone was correct about the trigger return spring being the piece that fell out.
    One way to test the "tightness" of these old H&Rs is to pull the trigger full stroke, then holding it at that position while testing the end shake and side to side wobble. If sound, that is very little wobble and shake is evident, then the lock-up is as intended. With the hammer merely at full cock, the "lock-up" on the cylinder is not maximized.
    As it stands right now - RETIRE IT - IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT ITS SAFE OPERATION - the gun is almost 100 years old and only God knows what some knucklehead has done to it in the past.
    Here's an old "blown-up" parts diagram and numbered parts list for the Auto. Ejectors and, as an end of year bonus, a picture of a couple fairly rare examples of the 3rd Mod. from my collection.

    IMG_5362.jpg

    IMG_5363.jpg

    IMG_1874.jpg

    IMG_1877.jpg
  9. StoneChimney

    StoneChimney New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,086
    Well, if it was a coil spring then it would probably be the sear spring but that spring should be held in place by the sear. It should not come out unless the rear trigger guard pin is removed as well.

    We work on a lot of old H&R and Iver Johnson revolvers, and can restore your gun to shootable condition. Contact us using the Private Message feature on this forum or from our website at http://stonechimneytrading.com
  10. Glock40boys

    Glock40boys New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2011
    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Deep in the heart of East Texas
    thanks guys it helped me alot and judging by the exploded picture its the part labeled 98R and stone ill be getting in touch with you soon. thanks and merry christmas to you both.
  11. brunothewonderdog

    brunothewonderdog New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Hi-

    My first post, but I have been watching for information on the H&R revolver.

    Mine is also my grandfathers, but not nearly as well cared for. Much rust, and the ejector set did not always go back.

    The required information is: 38 S&W. 5 shot. Plastic grips with the target. Serial number 497368. 5 inch barrel. H&R "Automatic" on the side of the barrel.

    I now have the revolver mostly apart. The cylinder does not come off. All the instructions I can find show the cylinder just coming right off by hand. I have the pin pushed out, just in front of the cylinder. See attached picture.

    The plan is to clean completely and re-assemble. Thanks for any help.

    Attached Files:

  12. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2008
    Messages:
    2,976
    Location:
    Lehigh Valley, PA
    bruno,
    Welcome to the forum!
    You have a 3rd Model AUTOMATIC EJECTING 3rd Variation 1913-16, from the serial number probably 1914 late in the year.
    On that model, to remove the cylinder from the arbor: Lift the barrel latch to full height and hold the latch in that position as you turn the cylinder counter-clockwise about 3 revs. The cylinder should then come off fairly easily. Reassembling the cylinder will require keeping the latch at full extension while you screw the cylinder onto the arbor in a clockwise direction. There is a small cylinder retention hook on the bottom of the latch which keeps the cylinder in place when the action is broken open. I believe that the small pin you removed from right infront of the cylinder is the auto ejecting system retention pin. I hope this helps - if not you have a greater problem.
  13. brunothewonderdog

    brunothewonderdog New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Jim-

    Thanks, but it looks like I have greater problems. The cylinder spins the same both CCW and CW. What next? What other information can I send that might help? Pics of the rest of the gun? Overnight soak in rust remover? No real hurry, no snow, and very little ice, in what usually the great white north of mintasota.
  14. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2008
    Messages:
    2,976
    Location:
    Lehigh Valley, PA
    bruno,
    Are you saying that with the latch raised the cylinder will not unscrew?

    IMG_1875.jpg
  15. brunothewonderdog

    brunothewonderdog New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Jim-

    Communication is not my strong suit. Yes, the cylinder will not come off. I have the cylinder latch removed. The cylinder spins Counter Clockwise without unscrewing. Are there other versions? Thanks for your continuing support.
  16. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2008
    Messages:
    2,976
    Location:
    Lehigh Valley, PA
    Bruno,
    I'm pretty dense sometimes, words just bounce off my eardrums. LOL
    H&R used quite a few different cylinder retention systems (maybe 5 or 6, can't remember right now.) But at the time your gun was made they only used the method I described above. I can't think of anything else that would bind the cylinder. The ejector rod goes into the quill where it is in contact with the "hook plate" that activates the auto eject when the action is opened - I can't see anything that would bind there as there is no coupling or fixed attachments. Here's a thought - Try putting that pin back in that was right in front of the cylinder.
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2012
  17. brunothewonderdog

    brunothewonderdog New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Minnesota
    OK, I'm back.

    Jim, you were correct. The cylinder did come off by rotating counter clockwise. It needed some major encouragement though. I took a hardwood dowel and whittled it down to a wedge shape that would fit into the flash gap between the cylinder and the barrel. I tapped on that while I turned the cylinder and that worked.

    I now have the rest of the revolver apart and found some other issues; I will need to order parts to solve them. The trigger assembly has a crack where the pin goes through. Lots of dirt and rust...

    I will get back to you when I re-assemble, I'm sure I will need tips.

    Thanks again.
  18. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2008
    Messages:
    2,976
    Location:
    Lehigh Valley, PA
    bruno,
    Another example of a problem being solved by the judicious use of force. Congrats and good luck.
  19. brunothewonderdog

    brunothewonderdog New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Minnesota
    JIM-
    Thanks again for your help. Now I'm ordering parts and during the dissaembly I did not find an item 64R "hook spring" (from your diagram earlier in the thread) on my gun. Did I loose this part, or do some models go without?

    Also, all the diagrams on Gun Parts seem to be missing a hook spring too.

    The reasearch is the fun part, even if you have done the hard work.....
  20. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2008
    Messages:
    2,976
    Location:
    Lehigh Valley, PA
    Bruno,
    You're welcome. If that part is listed in the "official" H&R parts list (the one pictured comes from a book used by the parts dept at H&R) I'm going to assume it is a necessary part. I don't know if it was used through out the production life of those models. I think we need assistance from a couple of the guys who actually take these guns apart and put them back successfully.
Similar Threads
Forum Title Date
The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum Harrington & Richardson .32 break top revolver ID question...and firing Jul 18, 2014
The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum Please date this Harrington & Richardson .38 Apr 22, 2014
The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum A nice old Harrington & Richardson for Bill Mar 2, 2014
The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum harrington&richardson Feb 26, 2014
The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum Harrington & Richardson Top Break Revolve Dec 29, 2013

Share This Page