Harrington & Richardson 38

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by Fl Girl, Oct 23, 2011.

  1. Fl Girl

    Fl Girl New Member

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    My Grandfather just passed and I now have his gun. I'm just looking for some information about it. I haven't been able to find out too much online. On the top of the barrel it says "Harrington & Richardson Arms Co. Worcester, Mass. USA" and on the side it says "38 cal S&W ctge" The serial number is 112103.

    Attached Files:

  2. Fl Girl

    Fl Girl New Member

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    Here is one more picture

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  3. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

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    FlGirl,
    Welcome to the forum. My condolences on the passing of your Grandfather.

    Your Granddad's gun is an H&R 2nd Model LARGE FRAME HAMMERLESS 4th Variation. It was made between 1913 and 1915. The serial number is low in the noted range - so year of manufacture is probably 1913. It has the "standard" 3 1/4" barrel, but the blued finish is scarce in this early variation and adds some value.
    Looking at your excellent pics it appears, to me, that the gun is in low VERY GOOD condition - there is some surface wear in various spots where you would expect to see wear on a gun that was carried quite a bit, but you can also tell that he took very good care of it - from the inside shots.
    The cartridge for that gun is the .38 SMITH & WESSON (not .38 S&W SPECIAL) and is usually a 146 gr. lead bullet. Your gun was made for smokeless/Nitro powder and should be able to handle any current factory ammo.
    I'm sure you don't care, because of the heritage value - but your gun is, in my estimation, worth around $235 +/- $35 at RETAIL - I hope you plan to keep it and pass it along.
  4. Glock40boys

    Glock40boys New Member

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    I have a H&R 38 S&W CTGE top break revolver. i was tod it is not safe to shoot this gun but i have shot it several times but it is loose so i cant sell it so i took it apart and found a broken spring that fell out in the process of taking it apart i need a place to buy parts for this gun as well as a exploded view of this gun so i know how to put everything back together to make it safe to shoot
  5. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

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    Glock40boys,
    Welcome to the forum we need to know exactly what you have before we can tell you anything about it so please provide more information like markings on the top of the barrel and on the sides and how many shots it has and a serial number will help also and maybe even tell us where the spring that fell out came from and what it looks like then we can probably give you a pic of an exploded parts diagram with numbered parts list and then tell you where to look for the parts.
  6. StoneChimney

    StoneChimney New Member

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    Im almost certain it is the trigger return spring since it is very often broken on these old guns but there are different sizes though and they do not interchange and if you can post a picture of the broken spring and the information jim asked for we can certainly help
  7. Glock40boys

    Glock40boys New Member

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    thanks guys, on top of the barrel it says harrington & richardson Co worcester, mass usa, on the side of the barrel says 38 S&W CTGE it is a 5 shot with extracter on it the grip is plastic with a target logo at the top of it. it has a hammer on it and the serial number is 343978 and the spring is the only coil spring in it...it fell out of the trigger housing while tapping out the pin hold the front of the trigger guard on. my intial problem was when the hammer cocked back the chamber still moved a lil bit so it was deemed un shootable but as long as you double action it it fires on the money every time.
  8. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

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    Glock40boys,
    Sounds like you have a 3rd Model AUTOMATIC EJECTING 3rd Variation (1913-1915). It was made to handle smokeless/Nitro powder loads - so if in safe condition to fire, it can handle any of the modern factory loaded .38 S&W (NOT SPECIAL) ammo. With that serial number it was most likely made in mid 1914 (just an edjumacated guess based upon known serial numbers).
    IMHO, Stone was correct about the trigger return spring being the piece that fell out.
    One way to test the "tightness" of these old H&Rs is to pull the trigger full stroke, then holding it at that position while testing the end shake and side to side wobble. If sound, that is very little wobble and shake is evident, then the lock-up is as intended. With the hammer merely at full cock, the "lock-up" on the cylinder is not maximized.
    As it stands right now - RETIRE IT - IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT ITS SAFE OPERATION - the gun is almost 100 years old and only God knows what some knucklehead has done to it in the past.
    Here's an old "blown-up" parts diagram and numbered parts list for the Auto. Ejectors and, as an end of year bonus, a picture of a couple fairly rare examples of the 3rd Mod. from my collection.

    IMG_5362.jpg

    IMG_5363.jpg

    IMG_1874.jpg

    IMG_1877.jpg
  9. StoneChimney

    StoneChimney New Member

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    Well, if it was a coil spring then it would probably be the sear spring but that spring should be held in place by the sear. It should not come out unless the rear trigger guard pin is removed as well.

    We work on a lot of old H&R and Iver Johnson revolvers, and can restore your gun to shootable condition. Contact us using the Private Message feature on this forum or from our website at http://stonechimneytrading.com
  10. Glock40boys

    Glock40boys New Member

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    thanks guys it helped me alot and judging by the exploded picture its the part labeled 98R and stone ill be getting in touch with you soon. thanks and merry christmas to you both.
  11. brunothewonderdog

    brunothewonderdog New Member

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    Hi-

    My first post, but I have been watching for information on the H&R revolver.

    Mine is also my grandfathers, but not nearly as well cared for. Much rust, and the ejector set did not always go back.

    The required information is: 38 S&W. 5 shot. Plastic grips with the target. Serial number 497368. 5 inch barrel. H&R "Automatic" on the side of the barrel.

    I now have the revolver mostly apart. The cylinder does not come off. All the instructions I can find show the cylinder just coming right off by hand. I have the pin pushed out, just in front of the cylinder. See attached picture.

    The plan is to clean completely and re-assemble. Thanks for any help.

    Attached Files:

  12. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

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    bruno,
    Welcome to the forum!
    You have a 3rd Model AUTOMATIC EJECTING 3rd Variation 1913-16, from the serial number probably 1914 late in the year.
    On that model, to remove the cylinder from the arbor: Lift the barrel latch to full height and hold the latch in that position as you turn the cylinder counter-clockwise about 3 revs. The cylinder should then come off fairly easily. Reassembling the cylinder will require keeping the latch at full extension while you screw the cylinder onto the arbor in a clockwise direction. There is a small cylinder retention hook on the bottom of the latch which keeps the cylinder in place when the action is broken open. I believe that the small pin you removed from right infront of the cylinder is the auto ejecting system retention pin. I hope this helps - if not you have a greater problem.
  13. brunothewonderdog

    brunothewonderdog New Member

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    Jim-

    Thanks, but it looks like I have greater problems. The cylinder spins the same both CCW and CW. What next? What other information can I send that might help? Pics of the rest of the gun? Overnight soak in rust remover? No real hurry, no snow, and very little ice, in what usually the great white north of mintasota.
  14. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

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    bruno,
    Are you saying that with the latch raised the cylinder will not unscrew?

    IMG_1875.jpg
  15. brunothewonderdog

    brunothewonderdog New Member

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    Jim-

    Communication is not my strong suit. Yes, the cylinder will not come off. I have the cylinder latch removed. The cylinder spins Counter Clockwise without unscrewing. Are there other versions? Thanks for your continuing support.
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