Harrington & Richardson Arms Company

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by daddyjack, Nov 27, 2007.

  1. daddyjack

    daddyjack New Member

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    I have an old Harrington and Richardson Arms Company single shot, break barrel 44 caliber rifle that i'm trying to put a price on. I cant find much information on them. The rifle is in decent condition but has some flaws. The only date that I can find on it is the pat. date of 1901. Does anyone know anything about this rifle?
  2. 22WRF

    22WRF Well-Known Member

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    If it is a Model 158 Topper in 44 Mag. It would be $150 for Exc. to about $80 for 80% condition. Intro in 1963 disc. 1985
  3. Xracer

    Xracer *TFF Admin Staff Mediator*

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    Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet!
    Hi Jack........welcome to TFF. :)

    This is a bit of a puzzle. :confused:

    You say that your rifle is "old" and has a "pat. date of 1901"....

    I don't find anything in any of my references (Blue Book, Standard Catalog of Firearms, Flayderman's Guide to Antique American Firearms) that relate to an H&R rifle anywhere near that patent date.

    Can you post a picture of it?

    Also, please give us all of the writing on it, EXACTLY as it's written.
  4. 22WRF

    22WRF Well-Known Member

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    I did find the 1901 patent date on a shotgun on Guns Ameriuca

    [​IMG]
    Wondering if this is a shotgun not 44 Cal rifle

    Also from GA No pic


    H&R 44-410
    GA LISTING NUMBER 976961196
    SELLER STOCK #
    CATEGORY Harrington & Richardson Shotguns
    CONDITION See item description.

    Price: $300.00


    Harrington Richardson 44 - 410 Cal - must be rare as I cannot find it in the Blue Book single shot break open action - made in Worcester Mass - Photos avail upon request to fortcannon@taconic.net - $300 plus shipping


    From Auction arms
    http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=8288819
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2007
  5. b.goforth

    b.goforth New Member

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    the first thing to get straight is this is not a rifle but a smooth bore shotgun. the 44 cal chambering is for a 44 caliber shot shell loosely based on the 44-40 WCF cartridge. this shot gun was never meant to fire any rifle or pistol 44 caliber cartridge, just the 44 caliber shotshell. which was latter stretched to the 44 extra long, which later led to the american 410 chambering.

    this is most likely an H&R Model 1905 small frame single barrel manufactured before 1916. but H&R did offer the 44 chambering in thier small bore double barrel hammer shotgun between 1909 and about 1912.

    the 1901 patent date is one of H&R's single barrel shotgun patents that was marked on just about all thier single guns betwee 1901 and the early 1930's. the dates H&R marked their small bore singles in 44/410 are:
    44 cal 1906-1915 model 1905
    410-44 1916-1921 model 1915
    410-12MM 1922-1936 model 1915
    410 1937-1941 model 1915

    the model 1905 and model 1915 different only in the way the barrel is removed form the frame. the model 1905 has a removable hinge pin the model 1915 does not.

    this information will be in my H&R book when it is published (i hope) next year.
    bill
  6. darknesscarnage

    darknesscarnage New Member

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    I just recently inherited a American Double Action.44 cal, and I can find very little information on it. Not much is known about this gun in the family, it was recent acquisition of my grandfathers before he died recently.Does anybody know anything about this gun or a good link to tell me more?my thanks.
  7. TakDriver00

    TakDriver00 New Member

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    Sorry for bring up an old thread but I just acquired the exact same rifle and would like to know the value as well. I have photos to show the condition and exact wording on rifle...

    Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
  8. Big ugly

    Big ugly New Member

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    I ssen one of these go for $450+ on a gun collector website earlier this year. I think it was SimpsonLtd out of Gailsburge Illinois. Do a quick google search on SimpsonLtd ant its the first one that pops up.
  9. TakDriver00

    TakDriver00 New Member

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    I did a search and it must not there anymore, but thanks for the tip.

    Cheers
  10. b.goforth

    b.goforth New Member

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    as stated above this is not a rifle but a smooth bore shotgun chambered for the 44 caliber and 44 XL caliber shot shell. it is a H&R Model 1905 small frame smoothe bore shotgun. do not attempt to fire any 44 caliber rifle or handgun cartridges in it. it was manufactured between 1906 and 1915 as not factory record exist for this model that is the only dating that can be done. some people are willing to pay a lot of money for this model if in excellent condition but generally they will only bring the values shown below.

    MODEL 1905------------------------------------------1906-1916
    Single Barrel, Small Size Frame, Top Lever Break Action, Barrel Lock is Non-Self Adjustable, Two Piece Take Down via Removable Hinge Pin, 28 Gauges, Barrel Length of 28 inches Full Choke, 44 Caliber (44-40 Shot) & 45 Caliber (45-70 Shot) Barrel Length 26 inches Full Choke, Walnut Pistol Griped Butt-Stock and Very Slim & Short Fore-Arm, Hard Rubber Butt Plate, Frame is Case Hardened and Barrel is Browned, Weight 4 to 4¾ Pounds. After 1911 Available with Auto-Ejector and in 24, 12mm, 14mm & 410 Ely Chambering, These are worth a 25% Premium
    This Model may have been made available to the Mail-Order Trade as a Brand Name Shotgun VALUE: 100%=$175 60%=$55

    this model with its removable hinge pin and non-selfadjusting barrel lock is best left un fired even with the proper ammo.
    bill
  11. howard67

    howard67 New Member

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    Bill, My Dad had an old H&R 44 cal that I inherited 5 years ago. Back in the early days I think they called them snake guns or carnival or show guns. This thing is serial number 4 and it shoots beautifully, 44 bird shot of course. My question; Last year, at night the forestock screws came loose and the stock with its still attached barrel locking piece fell off and is lost. I still have the forestock attatchment piece (snaps to a barrel stud 6in from the breech opening). I can make a new wooden forestock...I can't make the part that keeps the barrel attached to the gun when the barrel breaks open. Any ideas on where to find a used forestock for a 1905 model? I hear the birds callin' and my 12 is way to big and not nearly as much fun as the 44..and it shoots straight!
    I use it daily.
    Thanks,
    Howard
  12. b.goforth

    b.goforth New Member

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    i am quite dense sometimes i am not really sure what parts you need. the model 1905 has a removable hinge pin and the forearm remains with the barrel when the barrel is removed. it is retained by a simple screw. the model 1915 on the other hand has the type of forearm that snaps on and must be removed to take the barrel off the frame. some time the parts for both of these models show up on the auction sites and most used parts dealers will have every once in a while.
    bill
  13. PetahW

    PetahW New Member

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    For folks with guns like these, please understand the era & circumstances they were created in - very unlike those of today's modern era.

    The self-contained cartridge was fairly new on the scene, back then, and the large bore were the norm for shot - 6, 8, and 10ga. The 12ga was just coming into common use.

    A very few folks wanted a handier gun to handle shot - and so experimented with rifle cases, filled with shot. These were usually based on the .44-40 case and their rifles - referred to in the day as the 44XL.

    That case was soon followed by a 2" straight-walled brass one, then a 2" paper case, with H&R marking some guns ".410-44cal" after 1910, until about 1903 - but there were most likely just as many simply marked ".44" - which some may have even had rifling, although most didn't.

    Although ads for .410 cartridges appeared as early as 1887, the ".410" didn't get a solid footing in the US until around 1915-16.

    Where owners sometimes get misled, is that later-made guns sometimes have early-made barrel markings.
    That is most likely because the early makers were very thrifty - not tossing perfectly servicable roll-mark dies until they were trash.

    I would opine that is why researchers, like Bill, ask for every bit of detail, including serial numbers.

    .
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2009
  14. howard67

    howard67 New Member

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    Bill, It's a 1915 with the snap on forearm. I will keep my eye on the action sites. Thanks for your reply. The gun is indeed very old and like I said, it does shoot very well.

    Regards,
    Howard
  15. mickey7997

    mickey7997 New Member

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    i would like to know if anyone would know how much a "bay state" circa may 14th 1901 12 gauge full choke shot gun that still fires is worth. even if the blueing is almost non existant as well as the finish on the stock. any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Attached Files:

  16. b.goforth

    b.goforth New Member

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    the bay state name was not used by H&R until after 1917 so this "bay state"
    marked shotgun is a early variant of the H&R model 1908 manufactured between 1917 and about 1921. 1921 being the year H&R stopped marking patent dates on their single barrel model 1908.
    bill
  17. thewitt

    thewitt New Member

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    I have a HR Model 1904 .32 S&W long 5 1/2 octogonal blue barrel pistol, that I inherited from my Dad. It is in excellent condition even has a leather holster which is only in good condition. What is the value of this pitol?
  18. b.goforth

    b.goforth New Member

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    MODEL 1904 LARGE SOLID FRAME DOUBLE ACTION 38 S&W CALIBER ----1905-1941
    5 shot cylinder capacity, pull pin cylinder release, nickel finish (blue optional), 2½, 4½ or 6 inch barrel lengths, hard rubber Target Logo grips,
    marked with company name and address on left side of barrel and on top strap in two lines “H&R DOUBLE ACTION MODEL 1904 .38 CAL.”
    After 1930 listed in catalogs as: H&R MODEL 4 DOUBLE ACTION No. 83 .38 S&W CALIBER 5 shot
    VALUE: 100%=$230 60%=$55

    MODEL 04 LARGE SOLID FRAME DOUBLE ACTION 32 S&W LONG CALIBER -----1905-1941
    6 shot cylinder capacity, pull pin cylinder release, nickel finish (blue optional), 2½, 4½ or 6 inch barrel lengths, hard rubber Target Logo grips, marked with company name and address on left side of barrel and on top strap in two lines “H&R DOUBLE ACTION MODEL 04 .32 6 SHOT”
    After 1930 listed in catalogs as: H&R MODEL 4 DOUBLE ACTION No. 80 .32 S&W Long Caliber 6 shot
    VALUE: 100%=$220 60%=$55

    bill
  19. ibuddah

    ibuddah New Member

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    Hello
    I have a Harrington & Richardson arms co pistol
    Pat oct 4 87 may 14 & Aug2 95 April 7 1896
    I need to get a value on this please.
    thanks

    Attached Files:

  20. b.goforth

    b.goforth New Member

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    this is a second model 3rd variation;

    AUTOMATIC EJECTING SECOND MODEL (NEW FRAME TARGET LOGO GRIPS)
    (BLACK POWDER) ---------------------------------1890-1904
    New frame shape and new hard rubber grip panels with Target Logo, Auto-ejecting mechanism, Calibers 32 S&W, 6 shot cylinder capacity, 38 S&W caliber 5 shot cylinder capacity, nickel finish (blue optional), barrel lengths of 2½ (rare), 3¼ (standard), 4, 5 & 6 inches available, “IF THERE IS NO CALIBER MARKING ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE BARREL THEN IT WAS MANUFACTURED FOR BLACK POWDER”
    Top of barrel markings include company name and address and patent dates.
    First Variation; one patent date OCT-4-87 only-------------1890-1892
    Second Variation one patent date marked OCT-4-1887 (year marked in full) --------1890-1892*
    Third Variation three patent dates, Oct-4-1887, May 14 & Aug-6-89 -----------1893-Only*
    Fourth Variation three patent dates Oct-4-87, May-14 & Aug-6-89 (note 87 date des not have full year markings)--------1894-1896*
    Fifth Variation five patent dates Oct-4-87, May 14 & Aug-6-89, April-2-95, April-7-96---------------------------------------1897-1904*
    *Serial numbers found on the bottom side of the top strap will have letter codes with them.
    VALUE $225 $85 For all Auto-Ejecting 2nd Models; add 75% premium for 2½” barrel; add 25% for 4”, 5” & 6” barrels; add 15% for blue finish; add 10% for 1st , 2nd, 3rd & 4th variations with nickel trigger guard on nickel finish pieces

    bill
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