Health Care Bill Passed

Discussion in 'The Fire For Effect and Totally Politically Incorr' started by pinecone70, Oct 13, 2009.

  1. pinecone70

    pinecone70 Active Member

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    Historic: $829 billion health care plan passes

    WASHINGTON -- With support from a lone Republican, a key Senate committee Tuesday approved a middle-of-the-road health care plan that moves President Barack Obama's goal of wider and affordable coverage a giant step closer to becoming law.

    Maine Republican Olympia Snowe said she was laying aside misgivings for now and voting to advance the bill, a sweeping $829-billion, 10-year health care remake that would help most Americans get coverage without creating a new government insurance plan. "When history calls, history calls," said Snowe.

    Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, D-Mont., called his bill "a commonsense, balanced solution." A distance runner, Baucus has endured months of marathon meetings to get this far. It's not the finish line.

    Health care legislation is expected to be on the Senate floor the week after next, said a spokesman for Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada. But it won't be the Baucus bill. Reid will combine the Finance version with a more liberal proposal from the health committee -- with unpredictable results.

    Baucus said in an interview with The Associated Press after the vote that he hopes his bill survives the merger process without major changes.

    "The bottom line here is we need a final bill, a merged bill that gets 60 votes," Baucus said. "Our goal is to pass health care reform, not just talk about it."

    The vote in the Finance Committee was 14-9, with Snowe joining all 13 Democrats in support. In a sign of long political battles ahead, every other Republican voted against it.

    The ultimate fate of the legislation hinges on how lawmakers decide dozens of unresolved issues, from letting government sell insurance to abortion coverage. Even some senators who voted for the Baucus bill said they have concerns it will deliver on providing access to affordable coverage for all.

    As Snowe made clear, "My vote today is my vote today. It doesn't forecast what my vote will be tomorrow."

    The Baucus plan would, for the first time, require most Americans to purchase insurance and it also aims to hold down spiraling medical costs over the long term. Questions persist about whether it would truly provide access to affordable coverage, particularly for self employed people with solid middle class incomes.

    The Finance Committee's top Republican, Chuck Grassley of Iowa, gave voice to the GOP's concerns about the bill, saying it was "moving on a slippery slope to more and more government control of health care."

    "There's a lot in this bill that's just a consensus that needs to be done, but there are other provisions of this bill that raise a lot of questions," Grassley said, contending the legislation would mean higher costs for Americans.

    The committee approval marked a personal victory for Baucus. Four other congressional committees finished their work before August, and for months all eyes had been on the Finance panel, whose moderate makeup most closely resembles the Senate as a whole.

    Snowe kept Washington guessing about how she would vote until she announced it late in the debate Tuesday. Democrats, aware that Snowe could be the only Republican in Congress to vote for their health care overhaul, have spent months addressing her concerns about making coverage affordable and how to pay for it.

    The committee's centrist legislation is also seen as the best building block for a compromise plan that could find favor on the Senate floor.

    One of the biggest unanswered questions is whether the legislation would slow punishing increases in the nation's health care costs, particularly for the majority who now have coverage through employers. The insurance industry insists it would shift new costs onto those who have coverage.

    Congressional Budget Office Director Douglas Elmendorf, under questioning by Republican senators, acknowledged that the bill's total impact on the nation's health care costs is still unknown. The CBO has been able to establish that the legislation would reduce federal government deficits, but Elmendorf said his staff has not had time to evaluate its effects on privately insured people. Government programs pay about half the nation's annual $2.5 trillion health care tab.

    Once the Finance Committee has acted, the dealmaking can begin in earnest with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., working with White House staff, Baucus and others to blend the Finance bill with a more liberal version passed by the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee.

    Baucus' bill includes consumer protections such as limits on copays and deductibles and relies on federal subsidies to help lower-income families purchase coverage. Insurance companies would have to take all comers, and people could shop for insurance within new state marketplaces called exchanges.

    Medicaid would be expanded, and though employers wouldn't be required to cover their workers, they'd have to pay a penalty for each employee who sought insurance with government subsidies. The bill is paid for by cuts to Medicare providers and new taxes on insurance companies and others.

    Unlike the other health care bills in Congress, Baucus' would not allow the government to sell insurance in competition with private companies, a divisive element sought by liberals.

    Last-minute changes made subsidies more generous and softened the penalties for those who don't comply with a proposed new mandate for everyone to buy insurance. The latter change drew the ire of the health insurance industry, which said that without a strong and enforceable requirement, not enough people would get insured and premiums would jump for everyone else.

    A major question mark for Reid's negotiations is whether he will include some version of a so-called public plan in the merged bill. Across the Capitol, House Democratic leaders are working to finalize their bill, which does contain a public plan, and floor action is expected in both chambers in coming weeks. If passed, the legislation would then go to a conference committee to reconcile differences.
    (Copyright 2009 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2009
  2. woolleyworm

    woolleyworm Active Member

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    These people are on crack ------ "Last-minute changes made subsidies more generous and softened the penalties for those who don't comply with a proposed new mandate for everyone to buy insurance. The latter change drew the ire of the health insurance industry, which said that without a strong and enforceable requirement, not enough people would get insured and premiums would jump for everyone else."

    So, someone who is in good health can just convienently "forget" to sign up and not pay for awhile and then if they do get sick, can just go down and sign up without much worry about any penalty.

    This whole bill stinks to high heaven, let's hope they get their heads pulled out before it actually gets officially passed. If it does get passed and when it fails miserably, I wonder how long it will take to undo the madness. There should at least be provision for an immediate end to it if Congress declares it a failure in the future.
  3. obxned

    obxned New Member

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    "We, the People" are so screwed! Some form of this mess will pass, and unemployement will again go up. At some point very soon our whole economic house of cards will come tumbling down.
  4. kingchip

    kingchip New Member

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    Can't believe that Snowe sold out.
  5. Kieran McCaig

    Kieran McCaig New Member

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    Not a good day for you folks the market is show it the Canadian dollar is allmost at par again.
  6. dge479

    dge479 New Member

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    Why not?
  7. artabr

    artabr New Member

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    I can't believe that she thought about not selling out. :rolleyes: :D


    Art
  8. PharmrJohn

    PharmrJohn New Member

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    About time. Over the last few months, things for me have been put into perspective regarding health care for those who don't have it. Even more than before. Bigtime.

    I work in a prison. Pretty big place. Many, many offenders (the PC term for inmates). These offenders need health care. Granted, it ain't the government plan that our Senators enjoy, but it is something. They have free access to Doctors, Dentists, Pharmacists, ARNPs, PAs. They have access to free medications; there is a strict formulary that must be adhered to, and if we do not have it, we make sure something of equal efficacy is substituted in order to accomlish the goal. Now.........

    Let's talk about those without health care who are free men and women. Let's talk about those who are without health care that work for a living. That pay taxes. That are not in jail. That contribute to this society instead of burden it. Let's give all those people a small break and make something happen. Something good and something right. All this talk about tax breaks for those who purchase health care on their own is hopeless. It will feed the status quo. No one will use it because they will still have to pony up the money up front, with hopes of getting a fraction of it back at year's end. In this economy (or any other for that matter), it ain't happenin'.

    And of course the insurance companies are threatening to raise premiums. They are going to lobby against this because it is all about money to them. No secret there. Are the premiums going to go up? Yep. You bet. They do every year. I'm getting used to it. But that is OK, because I am one of the lucky ones that can go get my neck fused next year (again) because I have health insurance. Will people lose their health insurance? Don't know that either. But the government plan will be there if it happens. So a wash it will be (we can hope).

    The point is in this rant is that those who are stuck in prison have a pretty good health plan. And they don't pay a penny for it. We do. Millions on the outside (many who work) don't have anything. Something is wrong with this picture. Bigtime. End rant.
  9. kingchip

    kingchip New Member

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    I have two employees with 5.5 and 4 kids respectably. They each get back 7K-9K each , every year. This bill will reduce their return by the fine, and they will still go get free healthcare at the ER.

    If REAL reform was in order, Tort reform would have been first thing on the list.
  10. PharmrJohn

    PharmrJohn New Member

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    I almost said, "Fact is....", but there are many facts here. Many of them are unfortunate. But this has been ignored for years. It was talked about in the seventies and then shelved. Then again in the ninties. And shelved. There has been plenty of opportunity for those in Washington to step up and do the right thing. Now, I don't know squat about Tort reform. Heard of it. But have NO idea what it is. Probably something about reforming Torts. Or torting reform. Or retorting forts. Hey....at least it's getting done. We don't know what the ramifications are going to be. Hell, even congress doesn't have a clear idea of that. .......and I suppose that would be true with whatever they put out there. Too many variables.

    I do believe that it is going to go smoothly though. I am the eternal optimist. Look at the 2000 computer crisis. Did anything happen? Nope. But many were scared. Also, look at this 2012 Mayan calander piece of crapola that is going around. We will be ringing in 2013 with beer in hand. Guarantee it. Honestly, I think this is going to be a good thing. A few tweaks here and there and it will flow nicely. It has to. Because I am the eternal optimist.....and don't like to be proven wrong.
  11. Bobitis

    Bobitis Guest


    Something IS wrong.
    I can't afford a cobra for my son, so his teeth don't get fixed. No Dr visits, no eye exams, no nothing. Yet my taxes pay for countless numbers of people that don't have insurance. Why can't my son get health care, while millions that pay no taxes get it for free?
    This so called 'plan' will not do ANYTHING for him cuz he's a born American.
    My taxes will go up, my care will get worse, and I'll be deeper in debt to help pay for care that he will be denied. On top of that, he'll be fined for not having insurance. Will everyone else? When an illegal goes to the Dr without insurance, will they be turned away? Will THEY be fined after the fact?

    There is no legislative language in this bill. There wil be NO chance for public review. Transparancy my @$$!:mad:

    This is government control at its finest.

    This is just great. Felons get free med. Illegals get free med. Crack dealers get free med. Everyone that doesn't want to contribute gets free med.
    John and Phil get coverage under my plan. Sue and Jane get coverage. The couple that claim to be 'partners' get coverage.

    Where's the coverage for my 'straight', single, adult, out of work, trying to go to college, born in America, 19 year old son?!:mad::mad::mad:

    Oh YEAH. Something's WRONG all right.
    Too much governmental interferance! And now they want to control our life/death sentance.

    How did Dr Smith put it in Lost in Space.....
    "Trust me, Evil knows Evil".

    BOHICA:mad:
  12. JohnBrainard

    JohnBrainard New Member

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    Who should be responsible for providing health care to those who can't afford it?
  13. Bobitis

    Bobitis Guest

    John, John, John....
    Silly John....

    People like us that can't afford our own!:rolleyes::mad:

    Government health care vs individual health care.
    If you can't afford it, someone else surely can.:rolleyes:

    If not, we just print more money. That just makes it that much worse.

    'Hope' that helps. 'Change' is a good thing.
    TRUST ME!
  14. bcj1755

    bcj1755 New Member

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    PharmrJohn, I have to disagree with you over this one. I know a couple three people that have served time (thankfully, I never have. Although the way DHS is painting conservatives as a "threat," you never know:rolleyes:) and they ALL said the medical care they recieved was worse than what I got when I was in the USAF.

    But, to show I'm fair, if you can show me exactly where in the Constitution Congress and POTUS are given the power to regulate and control my healthcare, I will wholeheartedly support Barry's AdolfCare.:p
  15. JohnBrainard

    JohnBrainard New Member

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    I really want to know who PharmrJohn and others that support the healthcare bill think is responsible for providing health care to those who can't afford insurance. Hopefully someone will give me a serious answer. I'm doubtful, but they could prove me wrong.
  16. topper

    topper New Member

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    Get ready to open your billfords and let the governments take what they want....because they are going to get our money one way or the other. Costs will spiral out of sight and care will go to the dogs. Watch and see. The government can't even run a car giveaway with losing money, how in he!! are the going to adminster an effecient healthcare system? In short... they can't and won't!




    We are at the end of our time!
  17. JohnBrainard

    JohnBrainard New Member

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    I can't believe, after seeing what happened to the health care system in Europe and Canada, that our elected officials would implement the same thing here. It's absolutely unbelievable.
  18. PharmrJohn

    PharmrJohn New Member

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    Knew that was coming!!! But, again, that is OK. If the insurance industry won't step up and make provisions for those without (and you can bet your bottom dollar they surely won't), then it falls on the government. If it falls on the government, then it ultimately falls on us as taxpayers.

    They are going to put something together like they always have.....with the approval of those we put in power. It is up to us to vote those people into office that will represent us (including Congress of course). That is where our voice is heard. They are not going to go door to door asking permission....that is what our representatives are for. And in terms of transparency, if I am not mistaken (and it may very well be), the bill is viewable by the public. At least earlier versions were.

    So it comes down to basically an altruistic act made by all the taxpayers of the nation to fund this thing. I, personally, am willing to do it without hesitation. I don't mind paying taxes on things like this. All I want is to see a step forward on this matter, some resolution to an issue that has haunted us for decades. As I said, the reason I support this bill, is that something needs to be done. Something. Like the Medicare Part D bill that passed under Bush. That was fraught with shortcomings, but hey, it was something that the government did for our senior citizens that they deserved. And it did help. And I still support Medicare Part D. It's going on, what, eight years now? Something like that.

    Just remember, the insurance companies will never step up to the plate on this. It is not in their best interest. Tax breaks on premiums will not do squat, because people need money up front. Lord knows even with my salary I would have a very, very hard time insuring my family.

    So that is why I support it. Do I trust Obama? No. Do I trust Bush? No. Do I really trust any of them? You get the picture.

    OK......knock me down.;)
  19. Terry_P

    Terry_P New Member

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    Medicare is government run healthcare, will be bankrupt in 2017 without cuts or increased taxes. Anyone ever hear of medicare fraud? Of course not it's so efficiently run. Do any really feel the government can more efficiently run 1/7 of the economy than the private sector? Healthcare reform isn't about healthcare it's about controlling our lives. Do we need to change the system, sure you can start by deporting the illegal aliens that are milking the system dry. The politicans say that illegals won't be covered under the bills but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that once the bill is passed giving the plan to citizens that one stroke of the pen and 10-20 million illegals will be citizens.

    If you are willing to accept further government control of our lives as a trade off for healthcare then I suspect 10 years from now when you have to wait years to get to see a doctor and your taxes are thru the roof to pay for the trillions required to administer a corrupt system then you will rethink your support. Too late.
  20. Hardballer

    Hardballer New Member

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    This bill really isn't anything to worry about. What is coming next will make this seem like a Disney movie. We are not on the rebound, we are on a precipice and the government is pushing us off. Both sides. Like I said in another thread, if anyone thinks their vote in 2010 will mean anything, Republican or Democrat, they are smoking crack. Sooner or later it will probably sink in but for the most part, for most of society, it will be lambs to the slaughter.

    Look around. This is not unprecedented. It has happened before. Will probably happen again.

    Oil is taking off. Credit is non-existent. Banks are folding left and right. Just wait till next year. Peloser is talking VAT. Deflation has still not peaked by a long shot and once it's done (a one two punch) Inflation takes off like a rocket.

    The things I've mentioned here are just the tip of the ice berg. There is so much more.

    Anyone who is not taking care of their own future in what ever way they can afford; preparation, is fooling themselves and their loved ones.

    This hopey, changey thing ain't workin' out so good. You see, reality is not a religion that motors on happily on faith but rather it deals in provable facts. Nowhere in all of history can be found any "facts" that back up the Hopey, changey dogma. Not for lack of examples but rather a preponderance of examples ending in misery and sorrow. Failure after failure after failure.

    Click "The Right Sight" link below for tons of links, articles and information on every aspect of the near future.
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2009
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