Health Care Summit

Discussion in 'The Fire For Effect and Totally Politically Incorr' started by mncarpenter, Feb 25, 2010.

  1. mncarpenter

    mncarpenter New Member

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    Like a moth drawn to flame, I'm watching this circus in real time. The h*ll with bi-partisanship. This is exactly what Boehner and others said it would be, no real attempt to come into the same room and hammer out a workable bill, more of an attempt on the Democrat's side to dispute and shoot down what is being presented by the Republicans. Lamar Alexander has confronted Obama in a rather fearless manner on a couple of occasions-good for him. And Obama and his cronies continue to contradict, or retort that the issues addressed by Lamar, and Tom Coburn have already been addressed.What they aren't saying, is how they have been addressed, and why the pork and outright criminal handouts to various states are still in the bill! These people make me sick.
    All this from the 1st hour..
    Now Baucus says "...we basically agree on this bill..." there is the purpose for this summit-try to convince the public that Republicans and Democrats actually AGREE on this bill, so whats the beef? So, seeing how we all agree, might as well use the reconciliation process, in the spirit of bi-partisanship.
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2010
  2. doug66

    doug66 New Member

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    I have Been watching also. The dems know healthcare is a big part of what is going to cause them to lose their jobs. This is just a trick to drag the Rep.'s down with them. Which is entirely possible.
  3. Terry_P

    Terry_P New Member

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    The purpose is to put up a smoke screen to BS the american people so I have not watched any of it. If they really wanted to address healthcare costs then they should start with tort reform to cut the cost of malpractice insurance. Start there.
  4. Lee C.

    Lee C. New Member

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    Just anether dog and pony show, I seen the BS go on all day. And if the republicans go along with this it's the end for all of us.
  5. mncarpenter

    mncarpenter New Member

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    Well, they have proved to have an uncanny ability to screw up just about anything, though I was fairly impressed by Lamar Alexander's willingness to flat-out interrupt Obama in order to disagree. Obama scolding Cantor and McCain was the real theatrics, done to impress upon the Kool-aid drinkers that he da Man, and will run over the Republicans if they don't buy into the Democrats attempt to rape and pillage the health care and economic system.
  6. keepitlow

    keepitlow New Member

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    Every option under the sun has already been tried in various countries when it comes to healthcare. What the US needs is a 2 system healthcare plan. Fee for service system that is in place now for the rich folks and socialized healthcare for basic needs for the poor folks.

    If we just take from what others have tried (and worked) then we could work through this mess. Now, if the gov doesn't want to oversee socialized healthcare then say so. Tell Americans they are on their own and get this topic finished.

    A Rep at the presidential healthcare summit said the Reps don't what the gov in control of healthcare, they want people in control.

    OK, that is exactly what we have now... people in control of healthcare. So if nothing changes, then nothing changes. (well, not really, we can guarantee that healthcare costs will continue to skyrocket.)

    Even if the dreaded communist 'public option' went through it would not have helped. Have you ever noticed the politicians never talked numbers they just talked in generalities? Like we are going to insure tens of millions of uninsured citizens...but they failed to give the costs the uninsured people must pay?

    For instance lets say they took all the profit out of the Blue Cross $15,000 a year annual premium for a cheap health plan for me and my wife. So with a non profit - public option the annual premium ay come down to $11,000 or $10,000 or $9000...so what! We still can't afford it with all the profit taken out!

    And with the $3800 ObamaCare fine we would to pay for not being able to afford healthcare, we would have been in much worse shape trying to get by. The little bit of money we budget for medicine or doctor visits each year would not even touch the cost of paying that $3800 fine.

    Let me tell you how ObamaCare would have affected our family with our budget.

    When the original proposal to jail those without healthcare proved too unpopular and was dropped. The new proposed fine of $3800 they mandate on the uninsured would make it a decision of whether to pay my $345 a month house payment or pay Obama's fine of $316.66 per month (pro-tated)

    If I pay the fine, the bank takes back the house. And if I refuse to pay his fine, I'll still lose my house to the IRS? Either way we are out in the street.

    But, a socialized health plan was never really on the table. Well, it made good fodder to distract the public over the threat of turning America red.

    The 'real plan' all along, may have been to enrich the HMO's with new 'forced' business and ram the latest scam, the 'Individual Mandate,' down the publics throats. I was told that the lobbyists for HMO's have thrown more money at DC over this issue (healthcare related or not) than any other issue in history.

    Lets take a look at how it all went down. After all, it is quite a change from what Obama promised.

    From...

    "Lets Spread the Wealth. Lets set up a Socialized Healthcare System for All Americans paid for by taxing the rich 5%."

    To...

    "All uninsured Americans MUST buy healthcare insurance. And you must submit such evidence of coverage on your tax returns to the IRS or you will be FINED a penalty up to $3800."

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/21/AR2009072103410.html

    Employers are decreasing ins coverage to keep their bills down. Companies are letting go of full timers to replace them with part timers to cutout benefits offered. It used to be companies stayed with a medical insurance plan for years, Now the trend is to change plans yearly shopping around for the lowest cost plan which translates into lower coverage for the employees.

    The trend with healthcare benefits has been steadily declining. A friend told me 2 years ago their jobs med insurance went from no ded with a $10 co pay to $20 co pay and $750 ded. This year it was $20 co pay and $2000 ded...plus a $600 a year raise in premiums for privilege of less coverage.

    Next year they are talking about only covering the actual worker and not covering the family members and / or a $5000 ded.

    In addition to these cutbacks, in 2010 the insurance company now mandates that the insured cannot use either of 2 local state of the art hospitals, but must use 3 regional smaller hospitals to get coverage for most medical needs.

    Here is a glimpse of your future...

    "Kaiser forecast that the yearly family premium for health insurance could reach $30,803.00 in ten years if the 8.7% annual increase of the previous 10 years were to continue."

    http://www.kff.org/pullingittogether/091509_altman.cfm

    And lets go out a further 10 years. Now, the average premium is $70,939.00 per year at an 8.7% annual increase. Would you like to be forced under penalty of law to pay a $70,000 a year bill?

    Some of you say that is ridiculous?

    Well, why so?

    If it has happened on a continual and regular year in - year out basis for decades...what will stop it? Are healthcare costs suddenly frozen for all of eternity?

    Once healthcare insurance is mandated under penalty of law, the insurance companies will really start raping the public. They will have a captive audience.

    There is ONLY one solution to the healthcare mess in the US of A. The solution is this. We need a SOCIALIZED HEALTHCARE plan for the poor (people making under $150,000 a year) as well as a 'FEE FOR SERVICE' plan for the rich. (current healthcare plan in the US.)

    But the insurance companies that own the politicians wont go for socialized medicine even as an adjunct. Capitalism and greed block social ethics at every turn.

    And if per chance a politicians leans in a direction of social ethics. The lobbyists funded by the rich tell him or her we will back your opponent and take you out of office come next election. But if you play ball we will fund your campaign.

    So human nature what it is, they go where the money flows.

    We already have a socialized education system. We all pay for educating the kids through taxes. And some of us use this system and others don't, but we all pay. The people that don't want to use the public education system go the private education route.

    So it should be with healthcare.

    Tax people 1% to 6% depending on income and start a gov run healthcare system that can be used by ANY citizen in need. If that tax is not enough revenue, then start charging foreigners flying into the US an arrival and departure tax. Or start charging a 1% SHC (socialized health care) sales tax.

    Oh ... there is one fly in the ointment with my suggestion. The problem is getting a bunch of greedy, lying, power hungry rhetoricians in DC to oversee socialized medicine in a way that is not corrupt and money squandering like Medicare is. As one of my mentors said....'You can't regulate integrity.'
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2010
  7. Double D

    Double D Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

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    This has nothing to do with healthcare. Its a total power grab. Thats it in a nutshell.
  8. walien

    walien Former Guest

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    Really? How much will that save? Have you looked in to that?

    The summit was about what I thought it would be. It's in front of cameras and thus no progress was really made. Nobody wants to piss off their base and all of the politicians are pretty much safer by doing nothing.

    The people with a vested interest in the status quo are why healthcare is so expensive. They're also why healthcare reform will probably go nowhere.
  9. Terry_P

    Terry_P New Member

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    Really? Have you looked into that? How much is it costing us?

    OH ya what firearms do say you owned?
  10. doug66

    doug66 New Member

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    Our President's comment at the summit "that's what elections are for" sent a chill down my spine. I never have had any disillusions that the fed. govt. have my best interests at heart, but this is so much worse than that, they know better than half of the country is against this bill. Still they are going to do all they can to make it happen.

    Regardless of what your stance is on healthcare reform, using the nuclear option to pass it, is a crime.
  11. Terry_P

    Terry_P New Member

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    All you need to do is go to the doctor and complain about some particular pain or aliment. The doctors will run $10-15K in tests just to cover their butts so they won't get sued even though they know what the answer is before they run the tests or could find the answer with a simple test. They will run MRI's, CT scans and a whole host of others just so Jim Sokolov or some other ambulance chaser won't ask them in court why they didn't run those tests in front of a jury of liberal democrats that don't work so they don't object to jury duty.
  12. Bobitis

    Bobitis Guest

    I can buy brand name drugs in Mexico for less than I can at the local chain store. AND I don't need a script from any Dr.

    Why is that?

    My first thought was'collusion'. But that's illegal.:eek:
    Must be something else.:rolleyes:
  13. walien

    walien Former Guest

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    Terry,

    I know exactly what you're talking about. You don't need to explain it to me. You're saying that this is a panacea. I fully understand what defensive medicine is. I'm asking what data you're basing your opinions on. You say it, then back it up. Are there cost savings there? Yes. Are they big, not according to the CBO they're not.

    If there are such huge savings, then quantify them.
    The US has higher drug prices, by far, than any other first world country. You probably won't like how other countries get cheaper drugs.
  14. keokeboy

    keokeboy Member

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    all what is going on with health care today is b**** I had ILWU backed medical for my family for 16 years,than I got afl-cio for another 22 years,in between all these years I have very good health care at our veterans hospital in LR it;s all about taking personel resposibility. work hard and be happy:)
  15. Terry_P

    Terry_P New Member

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    They are made in China with zero controls. The chinese are good at making brands of anything. We have wintered a hundred miles north of the border for 5 years and people head down there to get their teeth fixed, get drugs, eyeglasses you name it. If you want that risk then go for it. I don't.
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