Help dating Win 94 .30 WCF

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by Wolfy77, May 16, 2011.

  1. Wolfy77

    Wolfy77 Former Guest

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    Ok yall, here comes the fun part.

    The front sight has no place for a cowl over it
    The front magazine mount has a dovetail into the barrel to hold it
    The front sight is dovetailed into the barrel with a pin
    The front band for the forestock is held on with two screws and goes into a dovetailed block
    Unable to remove the magazine yet to view date stamp on bottom of barrel
    Space where normally you find a serial number has only a small line and no visible numbers or indications of numbers
    The ENTIRE visible barrel, receiver, lever, trigger, tangs, and buttplate ALL show signs of some type of corrosion which has caused the weapon to have a speckled appearance, viewing the stamped info along the barrel shows what appears to be surface flaking of perhaps the case hardening. Partially visible is the words smokeless powder, the Aug 1894 patent registered date, but anything above the powder comment is unreadable. The upper stock tang contains readable Winchester info, and on the barrel it is readable Winchester .30 WCF The magazine shows strangely NONE of the corrosion that seems apparent on all the other metal, and the barrel interior is clear and the action works as smooth as my 1956 30/30 does. The barrel is round btw also.

    I will try and get some pictures, as this belongs to one of my neighbors, who got it from her deceased fathers collection. From viewing what few pictures I can find, it APPEARS to be around a 1913 based on my uneducated guess as to when the magazine band changes.

    Is there ANY way to ascertain the age and serial ? Also, can you provide info as to the metal hardening process used in the late 19th and early 20th century?

    Thanks
  2. BillM

    BillM Active Member

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    Welcome to the forum.

    No serial number? That's odd. I've never seen a 94 without one.

    SO--maybe it's one of the following:

    Totally crusty/rusty, serial number covered with crud or rusted away.
    That's a LOT of crud and/or rust:eek:

    Someone REMOVED the serial number---in which case you have a
    dandy little felony there.

    It never had one--a "lunch box gun". Never seen one, and it would
    have to be one heck of a lunchbox, but I suppose it could happen.
  3. Wolfy77

    Wolfy77 Former Guest

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    Thanks for the welcome, now if you can provide an answer to the question posed in the title rather than stating the completely obvious it might be a more positive answer rather than seeming to speak in political/military obliqueness.
  4. Hawg

    Hawg Active Member

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    Don't get a tude dude. Pics will help.
  5. Wolfy77

    Wolfy77 Former Guest

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    As I stated in the original post.... "I will try and get some pictures, as this belongs to one of my neighbors, who got it from her deceased fathers collection. "

    Why is it folks are quick to state comments that either 1) have absolutely nothing to do with helping answer the query posed or 2) develop an attitude and state the completely obvious???

    Both of yalls comments rank up there with someone asking "Why is the sky blue" and getting an answer of "is it day or night"

    If anyone else cares to flame rather than intelligently provide some insight to the query asked, you will get the same in return. Its not rocket science,
    Last edited by a moderator: May 17, 2011
  6. Country101

    Country101 Active Member

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    If you want to date it, I would suggest starting with flowers and candy....... :D


    Sorry, I'm no help Wolfy. Dont know much about hat gun. Hopefully somebody else will be able to fix you up soon.
  7. Bert H.

    Bert H. Member

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    Hello Wolfy77,

    If the serial number has been obliterated due to corrosion, the precise date of manufacture can not be determined. That said, the rest of the markings on the gun can be used to determine an estimate period of manufacture.

    There is some information you left out that would help identify the gun better;

    1. Barrel length?
    2. Barrel contour (e.g. octagon or round)?
    3. Is the upper tang roll marked, and if so, what exactly does it say?
    4. Are the barrel markings (address and caliber stamps) on the top dead center of the barrel, or on the left (10 o'clock) position?
    5. Does it have the superposed "WP" proof marks on the top of the frame ring and the barrel?
    6. What type of butt plate does it have?

    Based on your initial description, it appears to be a Sporting Rifle instead of a Carbine. Winchester did not begin using sight hoods (on the Carbines) until mid 1932.

    Forgot to add... Winchester barrels were always blued, never case hardened. The receivers were also blued except for a very small number of pre-1902 special order guns that were made with color case hardened receivrer frames. The lever, hammer, and trigger were color case hardened up to circa 1918.

    Bert H.
    Last edited: May 17, 2011
  8. Wolfy77

    Wolfy77 Former Guest

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    Hiya Bert,

    I'm not sure yet of the barrel length
    Round barrel
    Tang is marked, from memory it says WINCHESTER 94 but I will verify
    The info stamps are on the left side just above the forearm but below the rear sight
    If I remember correctly it does have the WP marks on barrel and receiver
    And I'm not sure of the butt plate.

    My neighbor is out of town and wont be back for a few days, I appreciate the help so far.

    Wolfy
  9. Willie

    Willie Active Member

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    Wow! Here is someone asking for a favor of knowledge about his gun,gets rude when he does not get the answer he wants and then TELLS people if they don't answer in a manner that he likes to put down our keyboard and walk away. And your 4 posts. Sorry mods,if you need to delete this I am ok with that. Just thought he needed a answer to why we answer like we do.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 17, 2011
  10. RJay

    RJay Well-Known Member

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    I was wondering why Bert H. even posted, but what ever.:rolleyes:
  11. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

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    We can state with authority that it is not a "Muff" gun!
  12. Hawg

    Hawg Active Member

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    Are you sure about that? Maybe he has long muffs.:D
  13. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

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    This post was reported as being "rude".

    For the record, a "muff gun" was the female equivelant of the "boot pistol" which men carried in one of their boots.
    The muff gun was a small light pistol designed to be carried in a ladies muff, which, for those only familiar with modern slang instead af actual definitions, was a fur cylinder which ladies would put one hand in each end of while holding it in front of them. The purpose was to keep their hands warm. Small pistols to carry in the muff were quite popular an the latter 19th century.

    This comment was in response to the rather rude demands that someone provide a manufacturing date on a weapon without knowing exactly what it looks like (no picture), what the serial number is, or exactly what markings are on it. As such, I do not believe it is out of line at all. If you want EXACT answers, provide full and exact information, which includes a full set of clear photographs of the gun from several angles and clear close-up's of all markings. Without this, your question is not too far from the person who says "I have a Winchester shotgun. How old is it, and what is it worth?"
  14. Jim Hauff

    Jim Hauff New Member

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    I apologize to whom so ever felt my remark, in re: "muff" gun, was rude. Mea Culpa.
  15. Hawg

    Hawg Active Member

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    Don't apologize Jim. We all know who the clown was that reported it. Some people are too arrogant for their own good.
  16. ampaterry

    ampaterry *TFF Admin Staff Chaplain* Staff Member Supporting Member

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    It is the mark of a true gentleman and peacemaker to apologize when nothing wrong was said or done by them. You are a great credit to the forum, Jim.

    Now, I wonder if a complaint will be filed over 'mea culpa' being rude - - -
  17. Double D

    Double D Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

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    I know I am offended..:( ;)
  18. Hawg

    Hawg Active Member

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    Well at least I didn't get a spanking. Kinda expected one tho.:D
  19. RJay

    RJay Well-Known Member

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    What the heck???? I through Mea Culpa was French for " Muff Gun ", oh well, live and learn!:D
  20. Alpo

    Alpo Well-Known Member

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    What's "mea maxima culpa", then?

    Al(always up for learnin' new stuff)po
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