Discussion in 'Technical Questions & Information' started by eric_daniel, Jan 12, 2012.

  1. eric_daniel

    eric_daniel New Member

    Mar 19, 2010
    So I'm restoring an old remington 22. I've pulled the barrel off and have effectively stripped most of the old blue and rust off. I went and got one of those nifty cold bluing kits from academy. (Birchwood Casey permablue) I'm doing just like the kit says: degrease, wash in water (I told my wife that it just didn't feel right!), dry... No problems so far... Go on to applying the "rust and blue remover." Again, no problems. It then says to repeat at step one, so I apply the degreaser and then wash in water. This time around, however, I begin noticing a slight hint of reddish color on the barrel. By the time I have the thing dried, it is beginning to have a full on red powder rust!!!!! What to do now? fine steel wool and oil? I mean that's fine and all, but I still have to degrease the son of a gun before applying the cold blue...
  2. Draftee

    Draftee New Member

    Dec 1, 2011
    Forget the water! Degrease it with brake cleaner and dry with a hair dryer, if you see and red use fine steel wool and remove it, then clean it again with the brake cleaner, dry it again and while still warm slopp it down well with the Bluing stuff. From here just go with the BirchWood directions. The water wash is what causes most problems, oxidation "rust" occures too quickly. What really works great is to grit blast the parts after cleaning with 240 grit aluninum oxide and douse them with the bluing stuff as soon as possible, rinse with water and without drying soak them down with WD40. By the way, Bluing does its best on a highly polished surface.:)

  3. Bill DeShivs

    Bill DeShivs Well-Known Member

    Apr 7, 2006
    Cold blues usually promote rust.
  4. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

    Jan 11, 2010
    now here's a thing , water just aint water , heavy in calcium flouride iron and many other things depending where your at , its a game ..

    if done right with pure water cool but i'll also add you cant leave it to dry for hours

    put it in a fan draught and wipe down as best you can , pull through the barrel with a clean cloth etc .. , then onto the next step

    if you have iron heavy or another ferric oxide compound in your water you'll need to get a trough and use deironised water .. or distilled ..

    the one instruction for the casey one is after the cold wash , rinse in hot water to help the drying ..

  5. StoneChimney

    StoneChimney New Member

    Nov 27, 2010
    This is just unfortunate. Cold blues are not suitable for "restoration" projects (this isn't restoration, by the way). It will after-rust, it will never look 'right' and most people just aren't happy with the results they get. Unfortunately it generally takes defacing one gun to figure that out. Kinda like repainting your car at home with Krylon spray paint.

    I understand the motivation to save money but there is some truth to "you get what you pay for" when it comes to metal finishing. For example, we would have correctly rust blued the stripped barrel and receiver for $80...
  6. CHW2021

    CHW2021 Well-Known Member

    Feb 16, 2009
    Been there, done that.

    If you want to cold blue at home STOP with the product you are using; get Brownells oxpho blue. I have tried 2-3 others in my years of being cheap and piddling with guns at home, oxpho is the best I have used. You can get a pretty nice finish and actually enjoy the job with this product. No, it is not a finish that you would get from a professional hot blue, no, it will not be quite as protective as hot blue. But in the world of done at home cold blue, this is the best you will find.

    Wipe your gun with light oil and get the oxpho, follow directions and you should be pleased. Post your progress.

    I do agree with the above post, but as I mentioned; I am cheap.
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2012
  7. Helix_FR

    Helix_FR Active Member

    Apr 14, 2009
    Imperial, MO
    Your Rust bluing for 80 bucks or caustic salts bluing for 80 bucks? If your rust bluing for 80 skins then thats a hell of a deal:D
  8. StoneChimney

    StoneChimney New Member

    Nov 27, 2010
    I would rust blue a stripped barrel and receiver from an 'old Remington .22' (believe probably a bolt action) for $80, yes. This is on the surface as prepped by the OP with no additional polishing, etc, other than cleaning/degreasing on our part. If we have to disassemble or if we have to more extensive prep the price would be higher.

    We do quite a bit of rust blue, both traditional and Dicropan.
  9. reynolds357

    reynolds357 Former Guest

    Oct 24, 2011
    I agree.
    On a slightly different, but related topic, can you duplicate the "red" finishes on the Russian rifles" For some reason I have always wanted to build a "red" custom rifle. One gun builder I know tried to do it, but it came out screwed up.
  10. StoneChimney

    StoneChimney New Member

    Nov 27, 2010
    We can do the "Russian Red" wood finishes, yes. Are you referring to a plum coloration on the receiver?
  11. reynolds357

    reynolds357 Former Guest

    Oct 24, 2011
    Maybe. It was a red colored metal finish on both the receiver and the barrel that I saw on a couple of old AK-47 rifles. It was blue, but in the light there was a definite redish dirt colored tint to it. It is kind of like the finish CZ had on the 550 American when they first started importing it, but even redder than that. I never noticed how red my 550 was until I put a brake on it and then the color contrast just jumped out and became blatantly obvious.
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2012
  12. StoneChimney

    StoneChimney New Member

    Nov 27, 2010
    No, that is due to the interaction between the heat of the salts and that particular alloy of steel. We can attempt to duplicate it by overheating the salt bath but cannot guarantee a specific 'plum' or 'red' shade. We would normally consider that a mistake.

    It does happen with some steels with age. They start out blue/black but over time they 'mellow' into a plum tint.
  13. reynolds357

    reynolds357 Former Guest

    Oct 24, 2011

    Thanks for the info.
    As soon as I figure out how to post pictures, I will post a pic of my 550.
    It might have been a factory mistake, but the CZ looked like that new.
  14. StoneChimney

    StoneChimney New Member

    Nov 27, 2010
    Not a mistake, just an alloy with higher nickel content.
  15. JLA

    JLA Well-Known Member

    Feb 26, 2007
    Heart Of Texas
    Soak that thing in oil and wrap it up. Box it and ship it to HelixFR. I have seen several examples of the guys gun fishing skills and even own a few myself. Second to none..

    And welcome to TFF. ;)
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